Whew, sorry for the length!
Welcome back to the hobby.
First thing to determine is your source water parameters. GH (general or total hardness) is the most important, followed by pH. It is worth knowing the KH (Alkalinity) as well. The fourth parameter, temperature, you/we can easily deal with so it is the other three that we/you need to know.
The success (or not) of attempts to alter the water chemistry by softening/lowering pH depend upon the parameters of the source water. Once we know these, we can go into more detail as needed. The pH tends to naturally lower in an aquarium due to the accumulation and breakdown of organics, but the extent to which this will occur depends upon the initial parameters and any viable targeting.
I wouldn't plan on any fish until the parameters are determined; there are fish that must have moderately hard (or harder) water in your listing, and there are fish that prefer softer water and may struggle and not work, again depending upon the GH (primarily) and pH.
I would hold your thoughts on filters until you know the intended fish species, as fish are affected by water currents, whether positively or negatively depending upon the species. There is only so much "filtration" any filter will do in a given tank, regardless of the number or water flow (gph).
Thank you for replying. I am working on getting kits here to test the exact hardness. The water softener things were Fluval peat granules. I've always just dealt with my hard water, but was curious how much these would lower things so thought it was worth a try.
Also, welcome back to the hobby!
I'll just add to what Byron suggested by mentioning that you have listed a LOT of fish. Even with Safe Start (I think Dr. Tim's One and Only may be better), you always need to add fish very slowly to a new tank setup to ensure that the beneficial bacteria stay in balance to ensure against ammonia spikes.
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Also, over stocking is not the best practice. Oh we all think it's no big deal to do increased frequency and/or volume of partial water changes, but what if you take a vacation trip, or God forbid, you get sick?
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Finally, you definitely should have plants, especially fast growing floating plants that will aid in water purification.
I know it's a lot of fish...I'm sure I won't end up with all of them but was mostly looking for recommendations on what to take out and who to leave in.
I have 5 show horses (one is pregnant, one is a 2x world champion, and others that are worth a pretty penny), a mini pig, 5 dogs, and 2 inside cats (along with a ton of outside ones)....a fish tank is the least of my concerns in the event of something happening, and I have people come and take care of my place when I go on vacation, and a husband if I get sick (and he is helping with this project). Thank you for your concern tho.
Right now, I could only do very low tech plants. I am interested in adding a few though.
I buy almost all my fish from LIve Aquaria as well - they do a great job having healthy stock and packaging for transport safely overnight. They pack them in Styrofoam coolers with a heated bag or cold bag depending on the weather. They ship overnight and really do give you a wonderful guarantee should any fish die within 14 days of purchase and you only have to send a picture of the dead fish - I suspect they may want the fish back if it is a high cost fish so they can do a necropcy and find out what happened in case it was your fault. They won't just give you a $200 store credit for something like that but I've had $10-20 fish credited back after they died.
Plus you can get some really rare fish you can't get in any fish store local to me (I'm in Kansas). I can tell you are trying to save (a LOT) of money by purchasing these fish all at one. Problem is that is going to kill your water cycling. You still need to spend a few weeks cycling your tank before you add fish and then add only 3 or 4 fish at a time. This is if you want to DO IT RIGHT versus save a ton of money.
For those that don't know - you get free shipping if you purchase about a $149 in live product from LiveAquaria, otherwise the shipping cost will be about $30-$50 or more for each group of 3 fish that you purchase and you're buying about 45 fish. That means TO DO IT RIGHT you'd be spending about $600 in shipping charges. Buying all 45 fish at once will save you $600. so there is a HUGE incentive to stock the way you are doing. The bad thing is that there is NO WAY you'll have enough bacteria in your tank for 45 fish. So you WILL PAY FOR IT.
I think they really use this incentive to ship to folks with fish stores or a lot of aquariums because buying 45 fish to stock 10-15 tanks is not a big deal.
PLEASE READ CLOSELY - THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME WITH LARGE ORDERS:
If you buy all 45 at once then your ammonia is going to peak out at about 8.0 ppm and NEVER come down except for a couple hours after a water change. It won't convert to Nitrites because you won't have sufficient bacteria. At that point you'll need to add Prime water conditioner at least every 2 days to your tank - that will keep your fish from dying from Ammonia poisoning because it will convert the ammonia to harmless ammonium - but that wears off after 48 hours and you are left with rapidly rising ammonia levels and will be forced to use Prime again every 1-2 days. I did not lose any fish because I kept adding Prime to my fish tank, but if you want to make sure all your ammonia is converted to ammonium you'll want to buy a different ammonia testing kit - one that separates out the good and bad ammonia. I test this periodically and so far I'm doing good at keeping all my ammonia converted to ammonium but since the regular test kits only measure total ammonia - they still read 8 ppm of ammonia. Sometimes only 4 ppm. It's a depressing sight day after day.
. I first started buying a few fish locally 8 months ago and after the nitrogen cycle on my tank completed (which takes about 6 weeks to grow - probably only a month if you use safe start) stayed stable. Ammonia, and Nitrites stated at zero just as they should, and ntrates were low. I did (still do) 50-75% water changes every week. Life was good.
Then about 6 months ago I bought a 2nd and 3rd tank and made a couple of large orders from Live Aquaria to get that free shipping - some of my fish were even really expensive so I didn't always buy huge numbers but I was buying them faster than the bacteria in my tanks could handle it so to this day I have to add prime every other day (or everyday to be safe). It works, but it is very frustrating and I feel like I've really risked my fishes health.
Recently somebody suggested that I use Safe start again (it can be used after a water change) and sure enough I am finally starting to see dropping ammonia on some of my tanks and I'm finally seeing nitrites. I still have to add Prime everyday but I think if I keep adding more Safestart after each water change then eventually (maybe in 6 months to a year) I'll have "normal" fish tanks and when somebody asks me my water parameters I can say 0/0/0 - right now I can only do that right after a large water change.
MEDIA: I don't think people are using carbon much any more but a lot of folks make their own media bags. I have Aquaclear 50 for each of my 29 gallon tanks - I use ceramic media, Purigen 100grams instead of carbon (does a great job of keeping the water crystal clear and can be re-furbished to work like new) but most importantly a sponge. I'm a little overstocked so my tanks are pretty dirty each week - I do rinse out my sponge filter in a bucket of tank water but sometimes it's too far gone to filter any more - so that's a drag to lose the biologicals by replacing the sponge.
PLANTS: if you are using fake plants at least get silk so they don't cut your fishes bodies like a plastic plant will. I REALLY TRULY believe that using lots of real plants lowers the stress in the tank. MOST fish want someplace they can go to destress and not all are cave sleepers. I bet if you looked in on my tanks at night you wouldn't see any fish out except my night feeders because everybody else would be in a cave or buried in floating plants. Yes, it's a huge mess sometimes but when you get fish picking on each other it gives them somewhere to hide and rest, not to mention a place to sleep. It also looks a lot more realistic
SUBSTRATE: I use both sand and clay (Seachem - it's expensive because I use at least 3" deep for the plants and for my digging fish). If you ever decide to get some cool fish like Dojo's or other loaches or Plecos or even the Cory Catfishes they like to bury themselves in the sand with just their eyes peaking out - the sand is what they need to do to feel safe and be the predators that they are - even if they are only killing fish flakes. My fish also like Tubiflex worms but I try not to let them have them too dry because they will over eat and they'll swell up inside them. Right now I've been nursing a Gourami with fish bladder disease/constipation and it's probably my fault for too many dry foods (flakes are really bad too but they love them and they are cheap) Their substrate comes in black and "dark" which is a yucky color of brown that will plague your water color forever - the black should be rinsed out 4-5 times before using, but the black is far more striking in a tank. I also use a solid black background on the back wall - that too gives the fish a sense of security - so unless the aquarium is going to be in the middle of a room I would recommend a background.
I have some of the neon glo fish and love them - I felt like a child buying them but the colors have just blended beautifully in my tank with the colors of my other fish. They really aren't that terribly bright - just very nice. I also have some kuhili loaches that are quite stunning as are the rainbow fish. If you get a pearl Gourami you will be making them the centerpiece of your fish because they are quite large (5-8" - I have 3, each a different size) but they are beautiful and less likely than an angle fish to get their fins nipped. Watch out for other large size Gourami because many/most are semi-aggressive and won't work in your peaceful tank. They'll especially stress out the Pearls.
Anyway sorry for the long post but I hope there was some value in my story because it WILL happen to you if you stock that many fish at once - it's just the way it is. You'll have to decide if you can live with it.
You also need to lower that 8,5 ph (ours here is naturally 9.4 and has been a huge problem) I use PHup and PHdown depending on what I've done - you can get the PH a perfect 7 and because of the water hardness it may continue to go up or down - if I set mine initially to 7, it will drop to 6 within a few days. So if I raise it to 7.2 or 7.4 it usually stops between 6.8 and 7.2 - because you're starting at 8.5 instead of 9.4 you will have a different experience - just remember to only raise or lower the PH very slowly over a period of 2-3 days - then fight with it and it's time to change the water again and start the fight all over again.
I never said I was buying my fish all at the same time. So no worries there.
Also, I really don't understand why you're adding Prime on such a constant basis. That's not what it's intended for. I see you also don't have any nitrate in your tank...that's not a good thing. Sounds like you have plenty to worry about in your own tanks.
If a tank is fishless cycled with 3 ppm ammonia, there will be enough bacteria for a sensibly stocked tank - there won't be enough for an overstocked tank. In theory, after completing a fishless cycle, all the intended stock can be added straight away. However, there are some species that need to wait until the tank is mature - that is, a tank that has been running problem free for at least 6 months after cycling is complete.
it is only where a tank has not been fishless cycled, or the cycle was not completed properly that fish need to be added slowly.
A pH of 8.5 is not too high where the water is hard. Hard water fish also need a high pH. I agree that it is too high for soft water fish, but kamanut does say s/he has hard water.
Adding Prime to a tank is not a good idea. It should only be added to the new water at a water change, rather than be used as a treatment. The way to deal with high ammonia and nitrite is by water changes, using Prime as the water conditioner. This will 'detoxify' the ammonia and nitrite for around 24 hours, and if they are still high next day, another water change should be done, using Prime to treat the new water.
Using chemicals to change pH is not advisable. if the water is hard it is likely to have a high KH, and this will prevent any chemicals from changing the pH. Yes, they will alter the pH temporarily then it will bounce back. This constantly changing pH is bad for fish.
Water softening pillows - it is common for these to take the hardness minerals (calcium and magnesium) out of the water and replace them with sodium. The API Water Softener Pillow, for example, is this type. Adding sodium to an aquarium is not good for fish, especially soft water fish. Just because an item is sold for aquarium use, it does not necessarily mean it is a good idea to use it.
The only safe way to reduce hardness is by mixing tap water with a source of pure water, usually reverse osmosis water. But before we can talk about this in detail, we do need to know exactly how hard the tap water is. Look on your water provider's website.
Thank you. I've never had issues with fish in the past, but I've been out of the hobby about 10 years so was curious what I'd missed. I see there have been studies that found kidney damage in tetras that lived in hard water vs. their recommended soft water. I love glowlight tetras, but removed them from my list for this reason. Pristellas seem to do better in harder water, so that's why they made the list. I wasn't sure if emperor tetras had the same issues with hard water as the glowlights, so would love some insight on that.
I do not want to have bouncing pH in my tank, nor do I want to fiddle with it much. If it's going to just be hard with a high pH, I will get fish that can handle those water parameters. I got the Fluval peat granules just to see if it would slightly lower pH in a way that would make the tetras happier, but if it's going to bounce around, I don't want to use it. That would stress the fish more than just keeping the water as it normally is.
I do not have a water provider, as I am on a private well.
I agree with
@Byron - lets get the exact paramaters. Hard water means different things to different people. Then when you do add schools add the entire group at once as
@Naughts suggests- so if you plan 12 harlequins add them all together, but there is no harm in adding different groups at different times aside from shipping costs.
Adding different species in stages is a good idea but then it is advisable that you have a quarantine tank to reduce the risk of introducing illness to your established group.
Just FWIW floating plants are almost always a good thing. Most fish do not like the amount of light that is in most tanks and they play an invaluable role in creating a healthy tank.
Thank you. Yes, all schooling fish will be bought together...that's just silly not to. I'm not worried about not knowing how to introduce fish into a cycled tank.
I am still not very interested in floating plants, as I find them extremely unattractive. I had a planted tank 10 years ago, with DIY CO2, etc. I loved it, but for this tank am looking for low tech at the most. What is a good light for plants that I could add without needing CO2 (I'm fine adding Flourish)?
NOTE: There is some very good advice above and some that is very debatable to say the least. Let’s try to post in a few small paragraphs and not get too lengthy. It is difficult to respond and address incorrect information if posts get too long.
@Byron ,
@seangee ,
@essjay all had good points. Thank you!
Thank you. I'm aware of the debatable posts, so no worries.
At one point I had over 20 freshwater tanks running, so most beginner things are a non-issue for me. I was just curious about what I had missed in the last 10 years of fishkeeping that would affect my stocking. Thank you!
