48l Tropical Aquarium

Byron

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
13,352
Reaction score
4,305
Location
CA
oh well maybe i will consider some then. is there a minimum of them i would have to have though ? because i definitely wouldn’t like to overcrowd my tank! and a 50% water change would be no problem at all. i have plenty of buckets ahah!
You want 9 or 10 of the pygmy cory, no fewer.

and okay i will try and do a little bit of research on E. grisebachii!!
To get you started, here is the profile on this species that I wrote for another site (we do not link other forums so I will copy it here for you).

Echinodorus grisebachii

Family:
Alismataceae

Synonyms:
Echinodorus amazonicus
Echinodorus amazonicus var. parviflorus
Echinodorus amphibius
Echinodorus bleherae
Echinodorus eglandulosus
Echinodorus gracilis
Echinodorus grisebachii var. minor
Echinodorus parviflorus


Common Name: Amazon Sword

Origin and Habitat: From Central America and Cuba down through South America to southern Brazil. Occurs in floodplains, palm swamps, rivers and creeks.

Lighting requirements: Moderate; grows well in diffused light. May manage in lower light.

Growth rate: Medium

Minimum Tank Suggestion: See below under "Discussion"

Water parameters:

Soft to slightly hard (hardness to 15 dGH, but if less than 4 dGH calcium supplementation will likely be necessary), acidic to slightly basic (pH 5 to 7.5) water, temperature 24-28C/75-82F. The “amazonicus” variety is less tolerant of hard water than the “bleherae” variety.

Discussion (for the “Bleherae” variety)

One of the most common aquarium species of sword plants and one of the most hardy and beautiful. Mid-green leaves numbering anywhere up to 30 arise from the crown and grow out in a fan formation to a length of up to 50 cm (20 inches) or more with the blade lanceolate and acute at both ends. Will often grow to the surface, so in larger tanks the plant will generally develop much larger in height if provided with adequate fertilization. A deep substrate is needed (minimum 3-4 inches); the root system is large, and will spread vertically and horizontally through the substrate far from the plant.

Echinodorus plants are heavy feeders, and in most aquaria will require regular fertilization with a comprehensive liquid fertilizer; adding substrate fertilization (root tabs) is extremely beneficial for stronger growth and larger development. If the leaves develop yellowing or transparent patches, it is a sign of insufficient nutrients. A balanced comprehensive fertilizer will ensure adequate nutrient supply in most cases, and comprehensive substrate tabs are highly recommended. In very soft water (less than 4 dGH) a calcium deficiency will often occur, resulting in excess iron deposits appearing as brown patches on the leaves; these will increase until the leaf and then the plant dies. The substrate tabs and liquid comprehensive fertilizer will resolve this problem.

E. grisebachii will produce an inflorescence (flower stalk), sometimes two or three at the same time and up to six or seven each year, which grow to the surface and above. Flowers will not appear unless the plant is grown emersed as a bog plant, but adventitious plants will develop from each node, two per node. This species does not send out substrate runners. The plantlets may be detached as new young plants once they develop sufficient roots and leaves, usually within 2-3 months.

As with the majority of species in this genus, E. grisebachii is a bog (marsh) plant in nature, spending half the year emersed (during which it flowers) and half submersed. The “bleherae” variant prefers to grow submersed and therefore adapts well to fully-submersed conditions and is thus an excellent aquarium plant. Aquatic leaves will be quite different from emersed leaves, in shape, size and texture. Newly-purchased plants have often been propagated emersed by nurseries and when grown in the aquarium the developing submersed leaves will be different from those on the plant at purchase, and the older leaves will yellow and should then be removed.

This plant was originally described as a distinct species, Echinodorus bleheri (Rataj, 1970), and the name was subsequently corrected by Dr. Rataj to E. bleherae (the feminine gender); it was named in honour of Amanda Bleher who first exported it from Brazil over 40 years ago. As will be explained below, this is no longer deemed to be a distinct species botanically.

Some of the most beautiful and useful plants for the tropical aquarium are found among the Echinodorus, a genus distributed in the tropical and sub-tropical regions of the Americas from the lower United States down to Argentina; the two "African" species of Rataj are erroneous (Kasselmann, 2003; Lehtonen 2008). Echinodorus derives from the Greek echinos [hedgehog] and doros [pipe or hose] referring to the spiny fruit. The English common name of "sword plant" comes from the general lanceolate shape of the leaf of most species and is generally used for all plants in this genus although other non-Echinodorus plants may sometimes appear under the name "sword."

Larger-sized species have a rhizome, whereas smaller species are stoloniferous. All species are perennial or annual aquatic or marsh plants found in boggy flood areas or along the banks of stagnant or slow-flowing waters. Except for the very few species that are permanently submersed, Echinodorus plants spend half the year emersed (when they flower) and the remainder submersed during the flood season. Leaves arise in a rosette and can be very variable not only between emersed and submersed forms but also when cultivated under different conditions. Correct identification often requires study of the flower. Inflorescences (flower stalks) are formed in all species; when grown permanently submersed in the aquarium most species will not flower but adventitious plants (plantlets or daughter plants) will develop from the nodes on the inflorescence, two plants per node.

Confusion has existed for the past few decades over the number of species in the genus Echinodorus, and many have been known under different names. In his earlier study of the genus, Rataj (1975) listed 47 species. A major revision by the botanists R.R. Haynes and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994) listed 26 species. In his 2004 revision, Rataj increased the number of species to 62. More recent work by Samuli Lehtonen—incorporating phylogenetic (DNA) analysis—proposed 28 valid species (Lehtonen, 2007). As of 2013, The Plant List and the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families (maintained by Kew) have 30 distinct species listed for Echinodorus.

Haynes & Holm-Nielsen (1994) considered the species E. bleherae, E. amazonicus and E. parviflorus to be conspecific [the same species] with E. grisebachii. Kasselmann (2002) suggested that the different habitus of the submersed plants between these three "species" is reason to retain the present names in the hobby. But Lehtonen's extensive phylogenetic analysis (2006) basically supports the findings of Haynes & Holm-Nielsen, with a few changes, and this classification is now accepted. The synonyms listed above are the former “species” that are now deemed to be within the one polymorphic species E. grisebachii. Differences in appearance between these plants are apparent and seem dependent on the specific environment in the aquarium; this seems likely to also occur in nature, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011). This species epithet grisebachii takes precedence over the others under the rules of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature because it was the first name assigned to the species, and this was by the American botanist J.K. Small in 1909; the name honours the German botanist H.R.A. Grisebach (1814-1879).

References:

Haynes, R.R. and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994), "The Alismataceae," Flora Neotropica, Vol. 64, pp. 1-112.

Kasselmann, Christel (2002), Aquarium Plants [English language edition, translated by Ulf Kotlenga].

Lehtonen, Samuli (2006), "Phylogenetics of Echinodorus (Alismataceae) based on morphological data," Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 150, pp. 291-305.

Lehtonen, Samuli (2008), "An integrative approach to species delimitation in Echinodorus (Alismataceae) and the description of two new species," Kew Bulletin Vol. 63, No. 4, pp. 525-563.

Lehtonen, Samuli and Daniel Falck (2011), “Watery Varieties: Aquarium Plant Diversity From Aesthetic, Commercial, and Systematic Perspectives,” in Ornamental Plants: Types, Cultivation and Nutrition, ISBN 978-1-61761-736-2, online: http://www.isentio.com/downloads/Lehtonen_from_Ornamental_FP.pdf

Lehtonen, Samuli and Leena Myllys (2008), "Cladistic analysis of Echinodorus (Alismataceae): simultaneous analysis of molecular and morphological data," Cladistics, Vol. 24, No. 2 (April 2008), pp. 218-239.

The Plant List, 2013, Version 1.1, published on the Internet: http://www.theplantlist.org/
 
OP
sam_mitchell98

sam_mitchell98

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
16
Location
St Helens
You want 9 or 10 of the pygmy cory, no fewer.



To get you started, here is the profile on this species that I wrote for another site (we do not link other forums so I will copy it here for you).

Echinodorus grisebachii

Family:
Alismataceae

Synonyms:
Echinodorus amazonicus
Echinodorus amazonicus var. parviflorus
Echinodorus amphibius
Echinodorus bleherae
Echinodorus eglandulosus
Echinodorus gracilis
Echinodorus grisebachii var. minor
Echinodorus parviflorus


Common Name: Amazon Sword

Origin and Habitat: From Central America and Cuba down through South America to southern Brazil. Occurs in floodplains, palm swamps, rivers and creeks.

Lighting requirements: Moderate; grows well in diffused light. May manage in lower light.

Growth rate: Medium

Minimum Tank Suggestion: See below under "Discussion"

Water parameters:

Soft to slightly hard (hardness to 15 dGH, but if less than 4 dGH calcium supplementation will likely be necessary), acidic to slightly basic (pH 5 to 7.5) water, temperature 24-28C/75-82F. The “amazonicus” variety is less tolerant of hard water than the “bleherae” variety.

Discussion (for the “Bleherae” variety)

One of the most common aquarium species of sword plants and one of the most hardy and beautiful. Mid-green leaves numbering anywhere up to 30 arise from the crown and grow out in a fan formation to a length of up to 50 cm (20 inches) or more with the blade lanceolate and acute at both ends. Will often grow to the surface, so in larger tanks the plant will generally develop much larger in height if provided with adequate fertilization. A deep substrate is needed (minimum 3-4 inches); the root system is large, and will spread vertically and horizontally through the substrate far from the plant.

Echinodorus plants are heavy feeders, and in most aquaria will require regular fertilization with a comprehensive liquid fertilizer; adding substrate fertilization (root tabs) is extremely beneficial for stronger growth and larger development. If the leaves develop yellowing or transparent patches, it is a sign of insufficient nutrients. A balanced comprehensive fertilizer will ensure adequate nutrient supply in most cases, and comprehensive substrate tabs are highly recommended. In very soft water (less than 4 dGH) a calcium deficiency will often occur, resulting in excess iron deposits appearing as brown patches on the leaves; these will increase until the leaf and then the plant dies. The substrate tabs and liquid comprehensive fertilizer will resolve this problem.

E. grisebachii will produce an inflorescence (flower stalk), sometimes two or three at the same time and up to six or seven each year, which grow to the surface and above. Flowers will not appear unless the plant is grown emersed as a bog plant, but adventitious plants will develop from each node, two per node. This species does not send out substrate runners. The plantlets may be detached as new young plants once they develop sufficient roots and leaves, usually within 2-3 months.

As with the majority of species in this genus, E. grisebachii is a bog (marsh) plant in nature, spending half the year emersed (during which it flowers) and half submersed. The “bleherae” variant prefers to grow submersed and therefore adapts well to fully-submersed conditions and is thus an excellent aquarium plant. Aquatic leaves will be quite different from emersed leaves, in shape, size and texture. Newly-purchased plants have often been propagated emersed by nurseries and when grown in the aquarium the developing submersed leaves will be different from those on the plant at purchase, and the older leaves will yellow and should then be removed.

This plant was originally described as a distinct species, Echinodorus bleheri (Rataj, 1970), and the name was subsequently corrected by Dr. Rataj to E. bleherae (the feminine gender); it was named in honour of Amanda Bleher who first exported it from Brazil over 40 years ago. As will be explained below, this is no longer deemed to be a distinct species botanically.

Some of the most beautiful and useful plants for the tropical aquarium are found among the Echinodorus, a genus distributed in the tropical and sub-tropical regions of the Americas from the lower United States down to Argentina; the two "African" species of Rataj are erroneous (Kasselmann, 2003; Lehtonen 2008). Echinodorus derives from the Greek echinos [hedgehog] and doros [pipe or hose] referring to the spiny fruit. The English common name of "sword plant" comes from the general lanceolate shape of the leaf of most species and is generally used for all plants in this genus although other non-Echinodorus plants may sometimes appear under the name "sword."

Larger-sized species have a rhizome, whereas smaller species are stoloniferous. All species are perennial or annual aquatic or marsh plants found in boggy flood areas or along the banks of stagnant or slow-flowing waters. Except for the very few species that are permanently submersed, Echinodorus plants spend half the year emersed (when they flower) and the remainder submersed during the flood season. Leaves arise in a rosette and can be very variable not only between emersed and submersed forms but also when cultivated under different conditions. Correct identification often requires study of the flower. Inflorescences (flower stalks) are formed in all species; when grown permanently submersed in the aquarium most species will not flower but adventitious plants (plantlets or daughter plants) will develop from the nodes on the inflorescence, two plants per node.

Confusion has existed for the past few decades over the number of species in the genus Echinodorus, and many have been known under different names. In his earlier study of the genus, Rataj (1975) listed 47 species. A major revision by the botanists R.R. Haynes and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994) listed 26 species. In his 2004 revision, Rataj increased the number of species to 62. More recent work by Samuli Lehtonen—incorporating phylogenetic (DNA) analysis—proposed 28 valid species (Lehtonen, 2007). As of 2013, The Plant List and the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families (maintained by Kew) have 30 distinct species listed for Echinodorus.

Haynes & Holm-Nielsen (1994) considered the species E. bleherae, E. amazonicus and E. parviflorus to be conspecific [the same species] with E. grisebachii. Kasselmann (2002) suggested that the different habitus of the submersed plants between these three "species" is reason to retain the present names in the hobby. But Lehtonen's extensive phylogenetic analysis (2006) basically supports the findings of Haynes & Holm-Nielsen, with a few changes, and this classification is now accepted. The synonyms listed above are the former “species” that are now deemed to be within the one polymorphic species E. grisebachii. Differences in appearance between these plants are apparent and seem dependent on the specific environment in the aquarium; this seems likely to also occur in nature, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011). This species epithet grisebachii takes precedence over the others under the rules of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature because it was the first name assigned to the species, and this was by the American botanist J.K. Small in 1909; the name honours the German botanist H.R.A. Grisebach (1814-1879).

References:

Haynes, R.R. and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994), "The Alismataceae," Flora Neotropica, Vol. 64, pp. 1-112.

Kasselmann, Christel (2002), Aquarium Plants [English language edition, translated by Ulf Kotlenga].

Lehtonen, Samuli (2006), "Phylogenetics of Echinodorus (Alismataceae) based on morphological data," Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 150, pp. 291-305.

Lehtonen, Samuli (2008), "An integrative approach to species delimitation in Echinodorus (Alismataceae) and the description of two new species," Kew Bulletin Vol. 63, No. 4, pp. 525-563.

Lehtonen, Samuli and Daniel Falck (2011), “Watery Varieties: Aquarium Plant Diversity From Aesthetic, Commercial, and Systematic Perspectives,” in Ornamental Plants: Types, Cultivation and Nutrition, ISBN 978-1-61761-736-2, online: http://www.isentio.com/downloads/Lehtonen_from_Ornamental_FP.pdf

Lehtonen, Samuli and Leena Myllys (2008), "Cladistic analysis of Echinodorus (Alismataceae): simultaneous analysis of molecular and morphological data," Cladistics, Vol. 24, No. 2 (April 2008), pp. 218-239.

The Plant List, 2013, Version 1.1, published on the Internet: http://www.theplantlist.org/

Would 9 or 10 habrosus corys be suitable in my aquarium, with my neons ? because I like the look of those guys!

Thanks for taking your time, to share all this information with me. Its definitely going to help me with caring for my swords! I really appreciate it!

and i forgot to mention, your 40g tank looks amazing by the way, the swords in there looks really healthy and well grown!
 

Byron

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
13,352
Reaction score
4,305
Location
CA
Would 9 or 10 habrosus corys be suitable in my aquarium, with my neons ? because I like the look of those guys!

Thanks for taking your time, to share all this information with me. Its definitely going to help me with caring for my swords! I really appreciate it!

and i forgot to mention, your 40g tank looks amazing by the way, the swords in there looks really healthy and well grown!
Thank you.

Yes, a group of 9 or 10 Corydoras habrosus is OK here.
 
OP
sam_mitchell98

sam_mitchell98

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
16
Location
St Helens
Thank you.

Yes, a group of 9 or 10 Corydoras habrosus is OK here.

That’s excellent then!

Do you know much about Salvinia Auriculata ? and any useful information i should know about them. I’ve noticed that some of mine seem to be off colour. they look black, but it seems the leaves are more transparent, and the roots are black
 

Attachments

essjay

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
7,199
Reaction score
2,823
Location
Teesside, UK
I had salvinia several years ago and lost it all during a heatwave like we have at the moment. It seems that this plant doesn't like water on its leaves and with it being so warm a lot of water evaporated, condensed on the underside of the lid and dripped onto the leaves.
You could try leaving the lid open or off until the weather reverts to its usual cold summer temperature.
 
OP
sam_mitchell98

sam_mitchell98

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
16
Location
St Helens
Well i never would of thought that! thanks for the tip. If the roots on the plant are black, does that mean that individual one is dead ?
 

essjay

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
7,199
Reaction score
2,823
Location
Teesside, UK
The roots on mine never went black so I'm not sure on that one. But the leaves got orange markings looking as though I'd sprinkled fish food flakes on them, then they went sort of a light brown mouldy colour, then they died. Some of the leaves in your photo look just like mine did which is what made me think about the weather at the moment.
 
OP
sam_mitchell98

sam_mitchell98

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
16
Location
St Helens
i’m going to take a closer inspection at mine then. because maybe they are more of a brown colour then, and i just have bad eye sight ahah
 

Byron

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
13,352
Reaction score
4,305
Location
CA
I have a profile of Salvinia molesta but it basically applies to other species in the genus. Essjay is likely on the mark here, this plant does not take to changes. There will be more in my profile.

Salvinia molesta

Family: Salviniaceae

Origin and Habitat: Several species are widespread throughout South America. Inhabits standing or sluggish, slow-moving waters in full sun.

Ideal position in aquarium

Strictly floating; will be best in quiet water with very little or no movement. Good air circulation between the light and the water surface is necessary to avoid "burning" the leaves.

Lighting requirements Moderate to bright.

Growth rate Fast

Ideal water parameters: Soft to medium hard, acidic to basic, temperature 15-28C/59-82F.

Discussion

Salvinia is a small floating fern, the sole genus in the Salviniaceae family. It consists of three leaves, two floating and one modified leaf submerged that may be mistaken for a root; the stem is branching and creeping, bearing hairs but no true roots.

This plant likes bright light; in its habitat it occurs in full sun. It also requires good nutrition from the water, and there should be good air circulation. The two surface leaves, which are larger than those of Duckweed, are green or sage green in colour, with a beautiful silvery sheen; these leaves will turn brown and melt if conditions are not satisfactory.

Although native to South America, this plant is very invasive and is now naturalized in Asia, Australia and North America. It is on the list of noxious weeds in the United States. It should never be discarded into waterways, as it has the ability to rapidly spread and choke out indigenous plants.

The genus was named by the French botanist and astronomer Jean Francois Seguier in 1754, in honour of the Italian professor of Greek, Anton Maria Salvini (1653-1729). There are currently ten recognized species, some of which are very difficult to distinguish apart.

Salvinia auriculata is the species often associated with the aquarium plant, but several authors believe this is inaccurate. Kasselmann (2003) suggests that S. molesta is the species most often found in aquaria, and according to Mitchell (1972) is likely a natural hybrid of S. auriculata and S. biloba. S. molesta was described in 1972 by D.S. Mitchell; the species epithet is Latin for damaging or bothersome.

References:

Kasselmann, Christel (2003), Aquarium Plants, English edition, Krieger Publishing Company.

Mitchell, D.S. (1972), "The Kariba weed: Salvinia molesta," British Fern Gazette 10(5), pp. 251-252.
 

Byron

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
13,352
Reaction score
4,305
Location
CA
Thanks again @Byron! do you think its a good idea for me to take out the ones that are slightly off colour ?
I usually do during the weekly water change. I have had this plant (whichever Salvinia species) for many years, and I find it comes and goes seasonally. Over the past couple of months it has been more rapidly spreading, but it will at some point slow down and with my removal of less than perfect plants it may be reduced considerably. Then it takes off again. I do nothing different all year with regard to light, additives, water changes, temp, so it is just the plant going into a rest phase.
 
OP
sam_mitchell98

sam_mitchell98

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
16
Location
St Helens
ah i’ll make it a weekly thing to do this then! Thanks for the advice. and to be honest i do feel like i have more of them in my aquarium, compared to when i first got them.
 
Top