40 gallon breeder tropical community tank stocking ideas

[JJ Briant]

I as of right now, have a 10 gallon aquarium with 10 neon tetras, 4 albino Cory cats, a betta, and a mystery snail. I am planning on moving them into a 40 gallon breeder ASAP and am looking for some ideas of other live stock to put in there. I am also looking for a better light to put on it as it will be a heavily planted tank, so any recommendations for a good light would be appreciated as well!

 

[JJ Briant]

And also any recommendations for good filter ideas for a high stocked 40

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Before we suggest fish species, we like to know your water parameters for the source (tap) water. GH (general or total hardness) and pH.

I will not comment on the light, as LED is more common now and my experience with this has been disastrous; I am still using T8 fluorescent but it is getting harder to find T8 fixtures so I built my own. Other members will be able to advise on good LED for planted tanks.

As for the filter, I have a dual sponge filter in my 40g breeder tank. The filter somewhat depends upon the intended fish; with plants a dual sponge is more than sufficient filtration, so the current is the real issue with the filter. If you stay with quiet fish like those already mentioned, you will not need more current.

The Betta should stay in the 10g on its own when you move the other fish over. Better for all concerned.

 

[JJ Briant]

I’m not sure about the hardness of my water because my test kit only does ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. But the ph for my tap is about 7.5

 

[Byron]

I’m not sure about the hardness of my water because my test kit only does ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. But the ph for my tap is about 7.5

If your water authority has a website, it may have water data posted. Or you can call them. Make sure you get not only the number, but also their unit of measurement as there are several. Unit means the degrees (dG or dGH), mg/l (milligrams per liter), ppm (parts per million), etc. There are others too, and individual water authorities may use one of them.

 

[JJ Briant]

If your water authority has a website, it may have water data posted. Or you can call them. Make sure you get not only the number, but also their unit of measurement as there are several. Unit means the degrees (dG or dGH), mg/l (milligrams per liter), ppm (parts per million), etc. There are others too, and individual water authorities may use one of them.

Okay so I found it. The hardness is 73.6 mg/l.

 

[Byron]

Okay so I found it. The hardness is 73.6 mg/l.

Good, that gives you more options than would harder water. A GH of 73.6 ppm (mg/l = ppm) equates to 4 dGH just for reference; some sources use ppm, some dGH (dH). This is soft water.

With the neons and cories, you have many options from among the South American species of tetra, pencilfish, hatchetfish. A few more cories would be advisable because this fish is always better the larger the group, and in a 40g you can easily consider 12-15. They can be mixed species.

Other options are from the SE Asian species, primarily the rasbora group. These are less lively and more in tune with the neons and other suggestions. Danios and barbs I would forget, they are livelier and some will cause problems with their behaviours.

 

[JJ Briant]

Okay perfect thank you for the help. You are awesome

 

[Byron]

Okay perfect thank you for the help. You are awesome

You are too kind. But I was being general, so once you have ideas about species post them. While groups like tetras, pencilfish and hatchetfish contain dozens of species there are many that would not work here, and many that will. [And I am still assuming the Betta stays in the 10g--he would not bode well with many of these suggestions.]

 

[JJ Briant]

You are too kind. But I was being general, so once you have ideas about species post them. While groups like tetras, pencilfish and hatchetfish contain dozens of species there are many that would not work here, and many that will. [And I am still assuming the Betta stays in the 10g--he would not bode well with many of these suggestions.]

Absolutely, but it definitely helps me get a start on some research. I am definitely thinking of leaving the betta in the 10 gallon because I was also looking into a good centerpiece fish like a honey gourami perhaps and am worried that the betta would not go well with a honey or gourami or really any other centerpiece fish I could think of.

 

[JJ Briant]

Absolutely, but it definitely helps me get a start on some research. I am definitely thinking of leaving the betta in the 10 gallon because I was also looking into a good centerpiece fish like a honey gourami perhaps and am worried that the betta would not go well with a honey or gourami or really any other centerpiece fish I could think of.

And also I have read a little on hatchet fish and had a few concerns about my ph. I really like them and would love to add a few to my aquarium but I have a ph of 7.5 which is higher then they can tolerate according to all the stuff I have read. Do you have any advice for that?

 

[Byron]

And also I have read a little on hatchet fish and had a few concerns about my ph. I really like them and would love to add a few to my aquarium but I have a ph of 7.5 which is higher then they can tolerate according to all the stuff I have read. Do you have any advice for that?

The pH is important, but GH is the more crucial for fish, provided the pH is not extreme. And it is not extreme here. Also, now we know the GH, I would expect over time the pH will tend to naturally lower as the organics break down. Water chemistry is a very complicated issue, and many make the mistake of trying to adjust it at the beginning, with terrible consequences. It is better to know the parameters, and let the tank establish the biological system. It will remain much more stable this way. My tanks have been running for years, some of them six or more, some two or three years if I rebuild them for different fish. I only test pH sporadically because I know it is stable and will remain so provided I continue my water changes. Over several years, having kept records of all tests, the pH in each tank has never varied by more than two decimal points (example 6.2 to 6.0 and back). Each tank can be different as each biological system is unique, notwithstanding the same water, same maintenance, same fish load, and plants, but the different pH levels within each tank have remained stable. Same for nitrate which is in the 0 to 5 ppm range.

As an aquarium establishes over the first few months, the organics accumulate in the substrate and the decomposition of these produce CO2 for the plants; CO2 is also occurring from respiration of fish, plants and some bacteria species, but the CO2 from the substrate is the major source. CO2 produces carbonic acid, which acidifies the water and the pH lowers accordingly. I let this go where it may knowing it will stabilize. I select fish suited to the GH (mine is zero) and an acidic pH. Some fish have a wider tolerance than others, but if the system is stable this is less of a problem.

The hatchetfish best suited to this tank are the smaller species, all in the genus Carnegiella. The species in Gasteropelecus and Thoracocharax are a tad larger, and also more active, and like to remain below the surface rather than at the surface. I have or have had species from all three genera, and the latter two really do best in a deeper tank than thee 40g breeder. My Carnegiella strigata, C. marthae, C. schereri and C. myersi did very well in my 40g tank. Carnegiella strigata, the Marble Hatchetfish, is probably the best of these; the other three can be very sensitive.

I am definitely thinking of leaving the betta in the 10 gallon because I was also looking into a good centerpiece fish like a honey gourami perhaps and am worried that the betta would not go well with a honey or gourami or really any other centerpiece fish I could think of.

Bettas are not community fish; while one may seem to manage in a tank with other fish, this often will end very suddenly, and along the way there are undoubtedly issues for the fish--the Betta and the other species--that we do not readily see until it is too late, and meanwhile the poor fish have been suffering. And bettas and gourami do not mix well at all. Gourami species frequently do not get along with each other. Males are territorial, some very much so. I am not much on "centerpiece" fish as they usually bring problems especially in small tanks like a 40g at 36 inches in length. If you decide on hatchetfish, a dwarf cichlid would make a better tankmate than gourami. A solitary Bolivian Ram is one.

 

[JJ Briant]

The pH is important, but GH is the more crucial for fish, provided the pH is not extreme. And it is not extreme here. Also, now we know the GH, I would expect over time the pH will tend to naturally lower as the organics break down. Water chemistry is a very complicated issue, and many make the mistake of trying to adjust it at the beginning, with terrible consequences. It is better to know the parameters, and let the tank establish the biological system. It will remain much more stable this way. My tanks have been running for years, some of them six or more, some two or three years if I rebuild them for different fish. I only test pH sporadically because I know it is stable and will remain so provided I continue my water changes. Over several years, having kept records of all tests, the pH in each tank has never varied by more than two decimal points (example 6.2 to 6.0 and back). Each tank can be different as each biological system is unique, notwithstanding the same water, same maintenance, same fish load, and plants, but the different pH levels within each tank have remained stable. Same for nitrate which is in the 0 to 5 ppm range.

As an aquarium establishes over the first few months, the organics accumulate in the substrate and the decomposition of these produce CO2 for the plants; CO2 is also occurring from respiration of fish, plants and some bacteria species, but the CO2 from the substrate is the major source. CO2 produces carbonic acid, which acidifies the water and the pH lowers accordingly. I let this go where it may knowing it will stabilize. I select fish suited to the GH (mine is zero) and an acidic pH. Some fish have a wider tolerance than others, but if the system is stable this is less of a problem.

The hatchetfish best suited to this tank are the smaller species, all in the genus Carnegiella. The species in Gasteropelecus and Thoracocharax are a tad larger, and also more active, and like to remain below the surface rather than at the surface. I have or have had species from all three genera, and the latter two really do best in a deeper tank than thee 40g breeder. My Carnegiella strigata, C. marthae, C. schereri and C. myersi did very well in my 40g tank. Carnegiella strigata, the Marble Hatchetfish, is probably the best of these; the other three can be very sensitive.



Bettas are not community fish; while one may seem to manage in a tank with other fish, this often will end very suddenly, and along the way there are undoubtedly issues for the fish--the Betta and the other species--that we do not readily see until it is too late, and meanwhile the poor fish have been suffering. And bettas and gourami do not mix well at all. Gourami species frequently do not get along with each other. Males are territorial, some very much so. I am not much on "centerpiece" fish as they usually bring problems especially in small tanks like a 40g at 36 inches in length. If you decide on hatchetfish, a dwarf cichlid would make a better tankmate than gourami. A solitary Bolivian Ram is one.

Okay I am actually going to rehome the betta, and I’ll have to look into the Bolivian ram. I was interested in the German blue ram, but i read it needs to be too warm for the rest of my fish so I decided against it

 

[Byron]

Okay I am actually going to rehome the betta, and I’ll have to look into the Bolivian ram. I was interested in the German blue ram, but i read it needs to be too warm for the rest of my fish so I decided against it

Yes, the blue or common ram, in any of its varieties, is Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, and needs warmth. Minimum is 80F, and many fish find this too warm long-term. The Bolivian Ram (M. altispinosus) does fine at lower temperatures but not below 77F.

 

[JJ Briant]

Okay! Truly thank you for the advice. I have been a little lost and am trying to learn as I go. Nice to meet people like yourself with experience who are willing to help