3 Male Platys - What Next?

[HawkinsFamily]

Hi All,
 
Our family has a new tank, which has been fish-less cycled (thanks to the info on this site) and has been home to 3 male platys for the last week now.
 
We've tested the water parameters and the filter is coping fine with its current stock of fish - ammonia & nitrites both 0.
 
My daughter would now like to add some further fish to the tank.  Ideally, she has her heart set on some Rosy Barbs.  Does anyone have this combination of fish in their tank, and how are they getting along.   As school fish, I understand that the minimum number should be 5 or 6.
 
Tank is 70 litres
PH is 8.0
3 male Variatus Platys
2 Assassin snails
 
 
If they are not suitable, any other recommendations; White cloud minnow, Danio?
 
Many thanks,
 
The Hawkins Family

 

[the_lock_man]

Rosy Barbs get too big for a 70l tank, unfortunately. I wouldn't recommend White Clouds, or the long-bodied danio species (zebra, leopard, pearl), as they require much cooler temperatures than standard tropical. Many fish shops house these with their cold-water fish, not tropical.
 
In an ideal world, you would only have fish that like a high pH in your tank, but those that are suitable for that size tank and that pH are few and far between. The obvious answers are guppies and endlers (again all males would be right).
 
In general, fish that like low hardness, low pH fish can be fine in a high hardness, high pH tank, so you could look at a shoal of Cherry Barbs, which are the right size, and not dissimilar to the Rosy Barb. You could also look at a shoal of Cardinal Tetra, Celestial Pearl Danio (these are different to the pearl danio), chilli rasbora.
 
You could probably finish it off with 6 of the dwarf cory species, too, if you can find them. My favourite are c. habrosus, aka Salt & Pepper Corydoras. Hilarious little fish.

 

[HawkinsFamily]

Thanks @the_lock_man.
 
Sorry, I should have stated that I'm running the tank without heat.  The water temp reads 21/22 celcius.
 
It was heated during the tank cycling but before I introduced the first fish, I took the heater out as I discovered so called temperate fish that can handle cooler temperatures - or at least that is what I've been told.
 
However, I am happy to pop the tank heater back in again - just took a look at the cherry barbs - they look nice too.  Just need to find a local stockist.
 
If I decided not to heat the tank, would the dino or white clouds be suitable then?

 

[Byron]

First on the temperature.  The platy (Xiphophorus maculatus) has a range of 20-28C/68-82F, but reliable sources suggest the lower to mid part of this range is best long-term.  So "temperate" is fine, provided it remains at or slightly above 21C/70F.  A heater set to come on if the temp reaches close to this temp would be best.  I'm thinking that at night, especially in winter, the room temperature may drop below what it is now.
 
Three platy in a 70 litre (20 gallon) is not leaving a lot of space; this fish will attain 5 cm/2 inches (males, females up to 8cm/3in).  I agree that moderately hard water fish will probably be a better option, though we need to know the hardness.  The pH itself may not be indicative of hard water.  You should be able to find the GH (general hardness) from your municipal water authority, check their website.  The GH is more critical for fish than the pH.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

I'd also recommend the lovely little cherry barb. I'd normally never recommend barbs as they tend to have a bad reputation for being nippy but the cherries have the opposite for reputation and they stay nice and small, colourful too - the males especially

 

[HawkinsFamily]

@Byron - thanks for your feedback.  I've now placed the heater back into the tank and set it to 22C.  As you suggested, at least this way I can maintain temperature if the ambient temperature drops overnight during the cold months here in the UK.   Regarding the water hardness, we are using a water softener as we live in a very hard water area.  I have used softened water in the tank - is this a mistake?  I do have a source of untreated water if this is preferable which I could gradually introduce when carrying out my weekly 20% water changes.

@Akasha72 - I've found a supplier of cherry barbs but the colouring is a very pale red as opposed to the striking red colour I've seen in all pictures of them.  Is this a bad sign or could the colour be enhanced over time through diet such as live bloodworms?

 

[Akasha72]

as with all fish, colour develops with age and stress can play a part in them losing some colour. My lfs has a group of cherries in their display tank and I can confirm that the deep red colour is stunning once it develops. They have a mix of male and females in and the females tend to be more of a orange/brown colour, so not as striking. If you want the striking red then research sexing from a young age before buying. That way you can choose them yourself and have just the males (I personally wouldn't trust an lfs to sex them. Some are good and some havn't a clue. It's best to know yourself and hand pick your fish)
 
If you want to enhance colour I find tetra prima to be really good. They do a micro version too for smaller fish

 

[Byron]

@Byron - thanks for your feedback.  I've now placed the heater back into the tank and set it to 22C.  As you suggested, at least this way I can maintain temperature if the ambient temperature drops overnight during the cold months here in the UK.   Regarding the water hardness, we are using a water softener as we live in a very hard water area.  I have used softened water in the tank - is this a mistake?  I do have a source of untreated water if this is preferable which I could gradually introduce when carrying out my weekly 20% water changes.

@Akasha72 - I've found a supplier of cherry barbs but the colouring is a very pale red as opposed to the striking red colour I've seen in all pictures of them.  Is this a bad sign or could the colour be enhanced over time through diet such as live bloodworms?

 
It would be better to use the untreated hard water, and stay with fish that require this (like the platy, and other livebearers, and there are some others).  Using softened water is removing the minerals that such fish require to maintain their physiology.  Another issue with softeners is that many operate by using sodium salts (like common table salt) and these are not good for most fish.  Subject to knowing just how the softener works, I would avoid any water passing through it.
 
Since you mention very hard water, I would want to know the GH of the water (non-softener water) before I would advise on soft water fish like cherry barbs.
 
Byron.

 

[HawkinsFamily]

Byron,
 
I wasn't able to find a GH water parameter on our local water company's website but what I did find was this
(TIP:  If you right click on the picture and choose open link in new window/tab - it should display in a readable size)
 
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I live in the UK so I don't know if GH is published under a different name or if it is possible to work this out from the information supplied.
 

 

[Byron]

Byron,
 
I wasn't able to find a GH water parameter on our local water company's website but what I did find was this
(TIP:  If you right click on the picture and choose open link in new window/tab - it should display in a readable size)
 
 
 
I live in the UK so I don't know if GH is published under a different name or if it is possible to work this out from the information supplied.
 

 
That's it.  The GH is the "total hardness as calcium carbonate."  The second column gives this in mg/l, which as they note is the same as ppm (parts per million) which is the scale often used in the hobby.  Another common hobby scale is the German degrees, which is here in column five and reads 16.302.  You can convert back and forth with the number 17.9, multiplying dGH by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm, or dividing ppm by 17.9 to get dGH.  If you do this, you will see that these two numbers are equivalent.
 
What this means is that you have "fairly hard" water.  A subjective term, but useful.  This would cover approximately the range of 12 - 18 dGH or 210-320 ppm.  Livebearers will be fine in this, ideal in fact.  So if you can use water that does not go through the softener, good.
 
This is a tad hard for cherry barbs, but as this species is commercially raised and has been for a while, it should manage OK. But here I would caution you on the tank size; 20 gallons (70 litres) is not a lot of space from the fish's perspective, and three platies at mature size (2 inches for your males) will use the upper space.  Finding lower fish, meaning fish more closely connected to the substrate, would be a better option.  One of the common cory species in a small group would work; the GH is OK for the commercially raised species like the peppered (Corydoras paleatus) or green (Corydoras aeneus).  I would say a group of five or six.  These will add interest to the lower level.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Byron.

 

[HawkinsFamily]

Thanks Byron, I'm glad you were able to make sense of the chart.

 
Thanks also for you explanation which I now understand after reading through a couple of times.
 
So, given that I have been using the softened water, could I add 20% hard water during each water change so that in theory after 5 weeks, I should have most if not all of the soft water removed?  Would this timespan be long enough not to adversely affect the fish, as I note from various sources that fish do not like rapid changes to their environment.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron, I'm glad you were able to make sense of the chart.

 
Thanks also for you explanation which I now understand after reading through a couple of times.
 
So, given that I have been using the softened water, could I add 20% hard water during each water change so that in theory after 5 weeks, I should have most if not all of the soft water removed?  Would this timespan be long enough not to adversely affect the fish, as I note from various sources that fish do not like rapid changes to their environment.

 
There are situations where very gradual changes in water parameters are necessary, but there are other times when this can be more rapid.  In your situation, the pH is around 8 and this is not going to change much if at all, so we need not worry about pH shock.  In the case of hardness, we have fish that need the minerals for their proper internal metabolism, and changes are not going to impact them negatively like a drastic change in pH might.  Think of it as the fish are struggling now, but with harder water they will struggle much less, so the sooner we achieve that condition, the better.  I would do water changes but only use the non-softener water.  I would do no less than 1/3 of the tank, and probably 1/2, using just the "fairly hard" water.  Initially I would do this twice the first week, then weekly after that.  If you had softer water fish in the tank, this would be very different.
 
Byron.