##150### Problem

[DERANGED C0W]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of upgrading from a 30 gallon to a 45 gallon aquarium. The length and width of the aquariums are the same but the 45 is taller. I went on ##150### to check the stocking capabilities for the tank but it doesn't change from 30 to 45 gallon. How can the same amount of fish be kept in a tank with 15 less gallons? The weekly water change lowers but the stocking does not. Am I wrong or did the website make a mistake. Is it because only the height changes?
Here's the links to take a look at what I mean:
http/##150###.com/##150###.php?AquTankName=&AquListBoxTank=Choose&AquTankLength=36&AquTankDepth=12&AquTankHeight=16&AquListBoxFilter=Hagen+Fluval+206&AquTextFilterRate=45+&AquListBoxFilter2=Choose&AquTextFilterRate2=N%2FA&FormSubmit=Update&AquFilterString=+tetra&AquListBoxChooser=Rummynose+Tetra+%28Hemigrammus+bleheri%29&AquTextBoxQuantity=&AquTextBoxRemoveQuantity=&AlreadySelected=200909300144%3A10%3A%3A%2C200909300196%3A8%3A%3A%2C200909300109%3A6%3A%3A%2C200909300031%3A1%3A%3A%2C200912111346%3A4%3A%3A%2C200909300033%3A1%3A%3A&FilterMode=Display+all+species&AqTempUnit=F&AqVolUnit=gUS&AqLengthUnit=inch&AqSortType=cname&FilterQuantity=2&AqJuvMode=&AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple

http/##150###.com/##150###.php?AquTankName=&AquListBoxTank=45g&AquTankLength=36&AquTankDepth=12&AquTankHeight=23&FormSubmit=Update&AquListBoxFilter=Hagen+Fluval+206&AquTextFilterRate=45+&AquListBoxFilter2=Choose&AquTextFilterRate2=N%2FA+&AquFilterString=+tetra&AquListBoxChooser=Rummynose+Tetra+%28Hemigrammus+bleheri%29&AquTextBoxQuantity=&AquTextBoxRemoveQuantity=&AlreadySelected=200909300144%3A10%3A%3A%2C200909300196%3A8%3A%3A%2C200909300109%3A6%3A%3A%2C200909300031%3A1%3A%3A%2C200912111346%3A4%3A%3A%2C200909300033%3A1%3A%3A&FilterMode=Display+all+species&AqTempUnit=F&AqVolUnit=gUS&AqLengthUnit=inch&AqSortType=cname&FilterQuantity=2&AqJuvMode=&AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple

http/##150###.com/##150###.php?AquTankName=&AquListBoxTank=45g&AquTankLength=36&AquTankDepth=12&AquTankHeight=23&FormSubmit=Update&AquListBoxFilter=Hagen+Fluval+206&AquTextFilterRate=45+&AquListBoxFilter2=Choose&AquTextFilterRate2=N%2FA+&AquFilterString=+tetra&AquListBoxChooser=Rummynose+Tetra+%28Hemigrammus+bleheri%29&AquTextBoxQuantity=&AquTextBoxRemoveQuantity=&AlreadySelected=200909300144%3A10%3A%3A%2C200909300196%3A8%3A%3A%2C200909300109%3A6%3A%3A%2C200909300031%3A1%3A%3A%2C200912111346%3A4%3A%3A%2C200909300033%3A1%3A%3A&FilterMode=Display+all+species&AqTempUnit=F&AqVolUnit=gUS&AqLengthUnit=inch&AqSortType=cname&FilterQuantity=2&AqJuvMode=&AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple

http/##150###.com/##150###.php?AquTankName=&AquListBoxTank=Choose&AquTankLength=36&AquTankDepth=12&AquTankHeight=16&AquListBoxFilter=Hagen+Fluval+206&AquTextFilterRate=45+&AquListBoxFilter2=Choose&AquTextFilterRate2=N%2FA&FormSubmit=Update&AquFilterString=+tetra&AquListBoxChooser=Rummynose+Tetra+%28Hemigrammus+bleheri%29&AquTextBoxQuantity=&AquTextBoxRemoveQuantity=&AlreadySelected=200909300144%3A10%3A%3A%2C200909300196%3A8%3A%3A%2C200909300109%3A6%3A%3A%2C200909300031%3A1%3A%3A%2C200912111346%3A4%3A%3A%2C200909300033%3A1%3A%3A&FilterMode=Display+all+species&AqTempUnit=F&AqVolUnit=gUS&AqLengthUnit=inch&AqSortType=cname&FilterQuantity=2&AqJuvMode=&AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple

Sorry, I have no idea whats up with these links and the title...?

 

[Man of fish]

That website is banned on here.

Also that websites only good for a rough guideline. Post on here and we can help you much better

 

[fluttermoth]

It's probably because they're basing stocking levels on surface area, rather than water volume.

 

[DERANGED C0W]

Ok, thanks guys. That makes sense. Here was my intended fish:
10 neon tetra
8 rummynose tetra
6 corydoras
6 oto cats
1 bristlenose pleco
1 or 2 bolivian ram

 

[OldMan47]

Deranged: there is a reason we do not allow that site to post or be linked here. We have found, by review of knowledgeable people, that the site is much too simple in its application of its limited stocking knowledge. Instead we block the site and ask that people looking for stocking advice ask us here at TFF. Since every stocking plan introduces different possible conflicts, like compatibility for example, we want a chance to guide you in the right direction instead. I have built databases over the years as a part of my job and I admire the database skills of the person who runs that site but I wish that instead he had some knowledge of fish and their requirements. Unfortunately, the person running that web site acts as a total newbie in fish care who has great database skills but presents himself as a fish keeping expert. Although the resulting advice is almost always wrong, I can respect the database skills of that author. He is very good at what he does understand but is not a fish keeper with knowledge of fish care, at least in my opinion. Instead he relies on the dubious advice that he gets from some other forums and web sites. We banned him here long ago to prevent his repeatedly bad advice to our members but people keep on stumbling across a reference to his "stocking advice" that is built on the wrong idea that filtration matters in ultimate stocking levels and that stocking does not rely on compatibility issues being resolved. Both are completely wrong concepts. Filtration matters only so far as it relates to maximum stocking levels in a tank and species compatibility always matters.

 

[JohnDyer]

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

 

[tomtomtom1230]

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

The basis of an aquarium is the filtration, without it, we wouldn't be able to process ammonia and nitrite into nitrates and probably, many other types of bacteria grow on the media and walls of the filter to process other microorganisms and chemical compounds. If your filtration isn't up to it, you wouldn't even be able to keep half the number of fish in a given volume of water. Doubling the fish stocking is probably very unrealistic, it's more about the flow rate with media inside the filter. Many companies measure their flow rate with an empty filter, and therefore the flow is usually only about 70-80% of the given figure. Surface area and the volume of water are also important but getting a good filter for the volume of water you have is more important.

The more surface area is available, the more readily oxygenated the water. Filtration keeps that oxygenated water free of nasties.

Don't get me wrong, the volume of water is still pretty important but filtration has EVERYTHING to do with stocking that volume.

 

[tmiller]

Deranged: there is a reason we do not allow that site to post or be linked here. We have found, by review of knowledgeable people, that the site is much too simple in its application of its limited stocking knowledge. Instead we block the site and ask that people looking for stocking advice ask us here at TFF. Since every stocking plan introduces different possible conflicts, like compatibility for example, we want a chance to guide you in the right direction instead. I have built databases over the years as a part of my job and I admire the database skills of the person who runs that site but I wish that instead he had some knowledge of fish and their requirements. Unfortunately, the person running that web site acts as a total newbie in fish care who has great database skills but presents himself as a fish keeping expert. Although the resulting advice is almost always wrong, I can respect the database skills of that author. He is very good at what he does understand but is not a fish keeper with knowledge of fish care, at least in my opinion. Instead he relies on the dubious advice that he gets from some other forums and web sites. We banned him here long ago to prevent his repeatedly bad advice to our members but people keep on stumbling across a reference to his "stocking advice" that is built on the wrong idea that filtration matters in ultimate stocking levels and that stocking does not rely on compatibility issues being resolved. Both are completely wrong concepts. Filtration matters only so far as it relates to maximum stocking levels in a tank and species compatibility always matters.

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

The basis of an aquarium is the filtration, without it, we wouldn't be able to process ammonia, nitrite and nitrates and probably, many other types of bacteria grow on the media and walls of the filter to process other microorganisms and chemical compounds. If your filtration isn't up to it, you wouldn't even be able to keep half the number of fish in a given volume of water. Doubling the fish stocking is probably very unrealistic, it's more about the flow rate with media inside the filter. Many companies measure their flow rate with an empty filter, and therefore the flow is usually only about 70-80% of the given figure. Surface area and the volume of water are also important but getting a good filter for the volume of water you have is more important.

The more surface area is available, the more readily oxygenated the water. Filtration keeps that oxygenated water free of nasties.

I'm relatively new to "researched" proper fish keeping but common scene would dictate that a given species requires a specific area to facilitate its swimming style, its temperament, etc, you also have to take into account its bio-load ( how much does it poop)..And about a million other ideas that have been researched and given a relative scoring of sorts by experienced fish handlers.

An excessive filtration would at best give you the edge to only slightly exceed the recommended numbers, but more realistically it would release you marginally from time sensitive maintenance.
In no way would it ever let you exceed the stocking lvs to a given species purely based on filtration alone..
there are far, far more equally important criteria to be considered...

 

[tomtomtom1230]

Deranged: there is a reason we do not allow that site to post or be linked here. We have found, by review of knowledgeable people, that the site is much too simple in its application of its limited stocking knowledge. Instead we block the site and ask that people looking for stocking advice ask us here at TFF. Since every stocking plan introduces different possible conflicts, like compatibility for example, we want a chance to guide you in the right direction instead. I have built databases over the years as a part of my job and I admire the database skills of the person who runs that site but I wish that instead he had some knowledge of fish and their requirements. Unfortunately, the person running that web site acts as a total newbie in fish care who has great database skills but presents himself as a fish keeping expert. Although the resulting advice is almost always wrong, I can respect the database skills of that author. He is very good at what he does understand but is not a fish keeper with knowledge of fish care, at least in my opinion. Instead he relies on the dubious advice that he gets from some other forums and web sites. We banned him here long ago to prevent his repeatedly bad advice to our members but people keep on stumbling across a reference to his "stocking advice" that is built on the wrong idea that filtration matters in ultimate stocking levels and that stocking does not rely on compatibility issues being resolved. Both are completely wrong concepts. Filtration matters only so far as it relates to maximum stocking levels in a tank and species compatibility always matters.

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

Sorry to go off topic, but how much does filtration really matter? Say I was getting a standard size 29g tank, but my filter is 200 GPH. Double the fish capacity is unrealistic, but would I be able to get 50% more fish? 25%?

The basis of an aquarium is the filtration, without it, we wouldn't be able to process ammonia, nitrite and nitrates and probably, many other types of bacteria grow on the media and walls of the filter to process other microorganisms and chemical compounds. If your filtration isn't up to it, you wouldn't even be able to keep half the number of fish in a given volume of water. Doubling the fish stocking is probably very unrealistic, it's more about the flow rate with media inside the filter. Many companies measure their flow rate with an empty filter, and therefore the flow is usually only about 70-80% of the given figure. Surface area and the volume of water are also important but getting a good filter for the volume of water you have is more important.

The more surface area is available, the more readily oxygenated the water. Filtration keeps that oxygenated water free of nasties.

I'm relatively new to "researched" proper fish keeping but common scene would dictate that a given species requires a specific area to facilitate its swimming style, its temperament, etc, you also have to take into account its bio-load ( how much does it poop)..And about a million other ideas that have been researched and given a relative scoring of sorts by experienced fish handlers.

An excessive filtration would at best give you the edge to only slightly exceed the recommended numbers, but more realistically it would release you marginally from time sensitive maintenance. In no way would it ever let you exceed the stocking lvs to a given species purely based on filtration alone..
there are far, far more equally important criteria to be considered...

Yeah you aren't wrong. You have to consider what fish you need to keep which then tells you what volume of water you need. Other than that, the actual volume of water serves no other purpose. Your filtration for that volume of water then tells you whether you can keep a little over or a little under where stocking is concerned. I personally believe that overstocked aquariums can work if filtration is good and the keeper is willing to put in the work for more frequent maintenance. It's bio-load isn't just how much it poops. A fish's bio load is mostly processed through the filter but fish also process O2 and give of CO2 etc as they respire. Surface agitation increases the exchange 'rate' of CO2 and O2 in the water and the more surface area you have, the bigger space you have to increase this exchange rate further.

 

[DERANGED C0W]

So is my stock ok for the 45? I posted it above^^^. I have a Fluval 206 external filter(I wish I had gotten the 306 now). If this filtration isn't enough I also have a Tetra Whisperer Ex45 I could hook up. Is filtration ok?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Ok, thanks guys. That makes sense. Here was my intended fish:
10 neon tetra
8 rummynose tetra
6 corydoras
6 oto cats
1 bristlenose pleco
1 or 2 bolivian ram

For a 45 (US gallon?) or 170l I would personally think about leaving out the BN catfish for now at least and instead concentrate on the four schooling species and the Ram, getting at least 8 of each social species.

Given that Rams need ~25C, you may need to do some research about which Oto species will be happy at permanent tropical temps, I think of them of being from slightly cooler waters (but someone did post about Rams being found in the same waters as Otos).

In addition you will need to carefully choose your Corydoras group, because ~25C is not good for some types like Trilineatus or Peppered (that can be found in 16/15C in the wild), the most obvious one that springs to mind as a good match is Sterbai (but there are a few others readily available that do well in the mid to high 20s).

 

[Man of fish]

25 is about 87* F. That's a bit high for bolivians isn't it? Most suggest that German blues need 84-88*, while bolivians need 79-84*?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

25 is about 87* F. That's a bit high for bolivians isn't it? Most suggest that German blues need 84-88*, while bolivians need 79-84*?

25C is 77F

 

[DERANGED C0W]

Ok, sounds good. The bristle nose wasn't a definite anyway and it is 45 gallons. Regarding the Cory's, I was thinking juliis.

 

[Man of fish]

25 is about 87* F. That's a bit high for bolivians isn't it? Most suggest that German blues need 84-88*, while bolivians need 79-84*?

25C is 77F

Oops accidentally added an extra ten in my calculating lol woops