10gal Tank Started 7th June 08 & Cycling With 6 Cardinals

[Miss Wiggle]

simple answer, there's a lot of dodgy website out there with old duff information, you seem to have stumbled on one of them!

there is a constant ammonia production going on, from the minute after doing water changes ammonia production will begin again and the bacteria will feed on it as best they can , what they can't yet eat is what's left as ammonia in the water, this is what you're trying to remove. the excess stuff.... they will be taking up all they can at present and as such growing and cycling the filter.

there is a danger sometimes with reading too much, particularly as a lot of websites seem to give worst case scenario.

i get told off for this at home, if i get medically diagnosed with anything i go straight on the internet and immediatley read a load of horror stories about it and wind myself up into a total panic, my other half then has to come and calm me down and talk some sense into me. Sometimes you havbe to take a step back and a bit of perspective.

what you are doing is right, it will work and you will get there, no one said cycling with fish is easy, it can be stressful and theres a lot to learn, but you're in the best possible place to learn it and you're willing to put the time and work in, so you've put yourself into the best possible position to get through this with no major problems.

 

[davefish]

MW is right: stop worrying!

The reason you are getting ammonia readings again is because you have had a big increase in waste production in your tank because you added the Betta. Your bacteria could only cope with the waste from the tetra before and will take some time to catch up. This is why you should stock very slowly when cycling with fish. Obviously you weren't able to do that because of your surprise gift. You've said your Betta eats a lot and so he will produce a lot of waste too!

You need to keep doing those water changes because otherwise you will be irreversibly damaging your fish. Don't worry about leaving ammonia in to feed the bacteria, they will have enough anyway.

Glad to see things are going well otherwise .

 

[waterdrop]

The information you got from that other web site is wrong. The chemolithoautotrophic bacteria that are good for us in our filters are very tolerant of water changes and can withstand rather longer periods of low ammonia supply and even periods of low oxygen than we tend to think.

Additionally, ammonia and nitrite exposure is relatively worse to fish than many sources tend to write about and should definately be the top priorty to address in any tank where it is rising above 0.25ppm. At that point any concern about food for the bacteria or tank stability or things other than the toxic stress to the fish is simply not a priority.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Well....thats me told, isn't it!

Ok then…I’ve been re-assured by you all. Thank you very much.

Your right of course, too much reading can lead to all sorts of conflicting advice, it’s like when Doctors start into their training, and they believe they’ve every disease and illness on the go when they read their text books!

I'm reading up loads and loads these days and it does lead me to become confused. But then again, ye could argue, that if I hadn’t taken it upon myself to read up stuff on the internet, I never would have stumbled upon this website, now would I!!

Anyway, can’t help the worrying though, it’s my nature! I’ll be totally grey before I’m 35, I swear I will! It’s something I’ve to work on!

Right…onwards and upwards then, eh!

A huge thanks for all the input!

Edited for dodgy spellings - something else I've to work on!

 

[Lazerus]

By the way, did a test just there a while ago and I'm back to 0 Ammonia again.

 

[Lazerus]

More ammonia showing up this evening at 0.25....so another water change....an hour later, still ammonia, in between 0-0.25ppm, so I did a futher water change just in case....its at 0 again now.

Its 6 days now since I saw my first case of ammonia in the tank. It started last Friday morning even though the 6 fish were in there 3 weeks.

Anyway, I've been doing loads of reading up on this site about swim bladder disorder which must be what my lad has. He's still just floating at the top or keeping himself down with foliage or whatever.

It will be day 3 for him tomorrow without food...I hoping I see an improvement soon.

I really do think its the blood worms that caused it. But I'm hoping that his bladder hasn't ruptured as I have at the back of mind an incident where got in the line of fire when I was pouring some water in one day and he knocked against the resin log....I stopped pouring immediately Time will tell.

But from what I read, he's not in any real danger of his life, its an irritant to him at the moment. Its more than likely the overfeeding issue. Fingers crossed, he'll correct himself over the next few days...but I'm assuming I'll have to resume feeding in very tiny amounts on Friday regardless of how bad he looks?

I wish he would eat some of the pea.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi all….

My betta is improving although definitely not better…He still can’t swim without spiralling but he’s not floating on the top anymore. He’s more active and spending time all around the tank under various anchor points. Today will be day 4 without food of any kind. I feel I should try him with food today.

He’s refuses the pea outright, so instead I got some King British ‘Revitaliser tonic’ which is a salt mix supposed “relieve fish of constipation & perceived swimbladder problems”.

I read the ingredients and I notice it contains Epsom salt in it (Magnesium sulphate) and table salt (sodium chloride), don’t know what else though as it doesn’t list it….anyway, hopefully I'll have hit on the right medication, and there will be some improvement seeing as he won't eat the wonder pea. Its terrible seeing him so 'quiet'.

Anyway…onto the science bit.

Ammonia still being maintained up to 0.25, then immediate water changes…however, I did only two water changes yesterday instead of my usual three. So there’s a change there,which is good….no sign of any Nitrite yet though?

Oddly enough, this morning my Nitrate is showing a tiny trace of orange colour…not exactly 5ppm though, but definitely not the vibrant yellow of 0ppm….how is this happening? I did the test twice to make sure....using a timer of course!

Surely I should be seeing some Nitrite first?

 

[Lazerus]

Oh and by the way, I forgot to add, my Ammonia reading this morning was 0ppm.

So in summary, my readings this morning were
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: somewhere in between 0ppm & 5ppm

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah sometimes you don't see the nitrite cos there's so little that it's undetectable with our kits, but it produces enough nitrate to make a mark on the nitrate kit...... so it means progress

 

[Lazerus]

Well, Thank god for that!!!! I'll do a another test this evening as see where I am.

Overall, I'm feeling more positive today about the future of these fish and thanks to this site it hasn't been a complete disaster....hopefully I'll have seen these fish through without any major damage, if any at all.

The Cardinals are as 'happy as larry', they really are....and for such sensitive fish, I feel a real sense of achievement there. (Seeing as that fish shop said they should technically be dead by now! )

But perhaps its early days yet.....I shouldn't speak too soon, eh! I'm not out of the woods just yet.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

But perhaps its early days yet.....I shouldn't speak too soon, eh! I'm not out of the woods just yet.

something about chickens and hatching.......

but yeah, you do seem to be making good progress, i'm concerned about your betta but i'm not really able to suggest much else tbh.....

 

[Lazerus]

Absolutely! Don't put all your chickens in one basket! !! ha,ha.

Yea, the poor betta....I don't know what to think really...I'm really gutted its happened ....I really loved him, even though he's only with me one week (this evening, in fact)

I watching him all day between doing jobs & I keep thinking he's dead or is dying, but then he'll suddenly make a sprint for somewhere I surprise the life out of me.

I used the turkey baster (such a handy tool for everything aquarium relatated it seems! ) to blow a ball of betta food in his direction...it was right beside at his eye but he didn't go for it. It just floating there beside him now...he's no interest whatsoever.

I'm praying this revitaliser tonic does what it promises. Perhaps its too late for him. Fingers crossed for him.

 

[Lazerus]

By the way, in the shop yesterday when I was buying the revisaliser tonic they had those shrimp I was on about last week...

Here they are...they are called Fire shrimp...deep scarlet red, with white polka dots on their backs...aren't they gorgeous!!! They are only for saltwater aquariums though I'm afraid.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah, there's some super cool marine inverts around

 

[Lazerus]

Just a quick update this morning...

My Betta lad is still hanging in there...he’s alert enough, and moves fast enough when he wants to, but over all he's not swimming around and he’s just staying in the one place for hours on end as before. I’m going to try him with food again today.

I only did one water change yesterday at 3pm even though there was only trace ammonia showing at that stage. (because I knew I wouldn't be able to a water change later in the evening and I was afraid that ammonia would climb too high before I got to it this morning.)

However, the tests this morning showed:
Ammonia: in between 0ppm & 0.25ppm, not quite either.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: nearly 5ppm


And that’s after 17 hours of the tank sitting undisturbed. I'm happy with these results needless to say.

I did another water change just now anyway to get rid of that ammonia trace.

However, perhaps I'm being lulled into a false sense of security, seeing as my Betta hasn't eaten in 5 days now. So, not as much waste is being produced.

If he does survive this (and I'm hoping to god he will ) I'm guessing I'm going to see another ammonia spike / mini cycle start again as soon as he starts eating?

Would I be correct in thinking that?