10gal Tank Started 7th June 08 & Cycling With 6 Cardinals

[Lazerus]

Well, bad news.

Was out all day from early moring and came home this evening to find my lovely betta dead. I'm gutted.

All week I've been at home watching him and helping him, but the one day I go out and leave him he dies. I believe he couldn't reach any oxygen as he was caught up in some floating plants when I found him and his head was pointing upwards...he obviously didn't have the strength, poor little guy.

I had treated the tank with anti-internal bacterial this morning in case it was an infection causing it and in case it was constipation, I'd been giving him small Espom salt baths prior to this...but nothing helped.

I'm wondering did the anti-bacterial stuff cause the problem in the first place as it was the day after I'd introduced it to the tank for the Cardinal last week, that the Betta showed these symptoms. Now today, when I added more....he's dead.

I guess I'll never know.

R.I.P little guy.

On a good note, but too late for this fella, my tank appears to showing some positive signs towards finally becoming cycled. After getting 0 reading last night, I left the tank alone, and after 24hrs without a water change, Ammonia showed up at around 0.25 this morning, Nitrite still 0ppm and some trace Nitrate. So I did another water change as usual.

If the results this eveing show up clear, I'll leave till tomorrow again before I change the water as there will be no need tonight.

Anyway....I feel like such a failure this evening. I feel this whole forum will be laughing at me for even thinking I could get these guys through a fish in cycle. I waiting for the rest of them to shows signs of demise any day now. So upset.

Talk soon.

Edited to add:
I notice my tank has green algae all of a sudden, on the plastic plants & on the gravel etc? It just sprung up over night it seems?

Anyway, test results since 8am this morning (its 8pm now):
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: Trace
But this would be the case as the big fish causing the mini cycle is now dead. So, I guess its back to square one for me. Once I add any more fish I'm going to see the ammonia rise again, won't I?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Well, bad news.

Was out all day from early moring and came home this evening to find my lovely betta dead. I'm gutted.

All week I've been at home watching him and helping him, but the one day I go out and leave him he dies. I believe he couldn't reach any oxygen as he was caught up in some floating plants when I found him and his head was pointing upwards...he obviously didn't have the strength, poor little guy.

I had treated the tank with anti-internal bacterial this morning in case it was an infection causing it and in case it was constipation, I'd been giving him small Espom salt baths prior to this...but nothing helped.

I'm wondering did the anti-bacterial stuff cause the problem in the first place as it was the day after I'd introduced it to the tank for the Cardinal last week, that the Betta showed these symptoms. Now today, when I added more....he's dead.

I guess I'll never know.

R.I.P little guy.

On a good note, but too late for this fella, my tank appears to showing some positive signs towards finally becoming cycled. After getting 0 reading last night, I left the tank alone, and after 24hrs without a water change, Ammonia showed up at around 0.25 this morning, Nitrite still 0ppm and some trace Nitrate. So I did another water change as usual.

If the results this eveing show up clear, I'll leave till tomorrow again before I change the water as there will be no need tonight.

Anyway....I feel like such a failure this evening. I feel this whole forum will be laughing at me for even thinking I could get these guys through a fish in cycle. I waiting for the rest of them to shows signs of demise any day now. So upset.

Talk soon.

Edited to add:
I notice my tank has green algae all of a sudden, on the plastic plants & on the gravel etc? It just sprung up over night it seems?

Anyway, test results since 8am this morning (its 8pm now):
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: Trace
But this would be the case as the big fish causing the mini cycle is now dead. So, I guess its back to square one for me. Once I add any more fish I'm going to see the ammonia rise again, won't I?

Oh mate, no one will be laughing at you at all, don’t ever think like that. As fish keepers I think we’ve all had a situation which was a bit touch and go, and we thought we could make it work but it didn’t. Even with the most experience in the world you can still come down on the wrong side of a judgement call.

But yes I’m glad that the tank is moving along in its cycle so hopefully if the tetras have been OK so far they will continue on in this vein. Got my fingers crossed.

All you need to do to ensure no mini cycle is to not add fish straight away, i know it can be hard to resist the temptation, but when the cycle has finished make sure you give it 2/3 weeks before getting more fish, and when you do just add them gradually so just a couple of small fish at a time, even if this means only adding half a shoal or something like that. But basically the longer you leave it after cycling the less chance of a mini cycle there is.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Miss Wiggle...I feel so bad for the little guy....

I wish I knew what happened to him so I could learn for next time, but there were too many possibilities. It could have been from Ammonia poisoning, it could have been overfeeding leading to Swim bladder disorder, it could have been major stress from all the water changes or a reaction to the internal bacterial medicine…. I'll just never know.

Funnily enough, after talking to my sister last night, she said that he was hanging in the corner of tank the day she bought him. (Last Friday) She picked him because he was more 'placid' than the other two, who were fighting & flaring with everyone around them in their tanks.

So perhaps his number was up before I even got him….he fell ill almost immediately….but as I say I’ll never know?

My tests this morning after 24 hrs were:
Ammonia: Nearly 0.25ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:0ppm or maybe just a hint of orange.
Didn't get a chance to look too long as I dropped and smashed the test tube. Doh!

It’s my nerves, I tell ye!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well that certainly sounds dodgy doesnt it, this is another reason why you shouldn't let other people buy fish for you, who knows what diseases they could unwittingly release into your tank.

'Placid' is not necessarily a good quality in a fish, if it's not their nature to be placid then they are most likley stressed/unwell in the first place.

 

[Lazerus]

Hmmm. Exactly. Lessons learnt all around. Pity it had be a loss of life though.

I'm watching my other 6 lads carefully....they are thriving though.

The original 'sick' cardinal is looking very well these days...I believe he'll never be 100% but his colours are returning slowly which must be a good thing. He always seems to be struggling more than the others in the current though so perhaps he's had some permanent damage from whatever was wrong with him.

We'll see.

They are growing like mad. I can really see they are alot bigger than they were when I bought them first. Fatter, longer and their colours are starting to become very vibrant.

Yes, I won't be buying any more fish now for a while (which was my original plan). I'll put some good thought into what I'll stock with these cardinals. And the new fish will benefit from having the tank cycled of course.

So, I suppose the one positive from this is that I won't have to ever worry again about the daily possibility of carnage that would have happened with a healthier feistier male betta.

It’s a pity though. I was looking into buying a small heater & pre-cycling a new filter and put him in my 5 gal tank. Oh well. No need for it now.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

So, I suppose the one positive from this is that I won't have to ever worry again about the daily possibility of carnage that would have happened with a healthier feistier male betta.

It’s a pity though. I was looking into buying a small heater & pre-cycling a new filter and put him in my 5 gal tank. Oh well. No need for it now.

Silver linings and all that, well give it time, when the tanks cycled and running smoothly one day you can get a 5gal and another betta for it.

 

[davefish]

Sorry to hear about your Betta. I think that the most likely reason is that he was ill already because you really haven't done anything wrong as far as I can see.

Your tetra sound like they are doing great.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Davefish,

It would be comforting to think that I may not have done anything wrong, and that it was just him being ill from day one...but I'll never know.

I so feel awful about it!!

I was visiting a friends house today and their kids two goldfish were going belly up also. I didn't feel experienced enough to offer any advice seeing as my own fish had popped his clogs the night before...so all I could suggest was test the water and change it if the results were bad.

So he tested his water with a 5 in 1 Api test strip and got these results "60 0 7 0 80" but I couldn't make out what it meant all. (I've posted a separate thread on that cause I was curious!! )

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Time to enjoy the fish I have. I'm still tempted to set up that 5gal tank after all and do a fishless cycle with a new filter and pure ammonia for a few weeks. Then I can have a Betta after all and leave the other tank to smaller peaceful fish. I simply love them.

I've been bitten by the bug I think!!

 

[Lazerus]

Well...I honestly don't know where I'm at this morning with this tank.

Ammonia: trace, if even that.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
This is 24hrs after yesterdays water change.

Did a water change anyway just in case.....

Has the cycle regressed now that the big fella is gone?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

possibly

cycling is a supply and demand thing

the tank is considered cycled when the rate of ammonia consumption is equal to the rate of ammonia production.

So if the ABacs and NBacs can consume all the ammonia that's produced in a tank then the tank is cycled. If the rate of ammonia production suddenly rises (i.e. when you add more fish) a cycled tank can become uncycled and you get a mini cycle to catch up. If the rate of ammonia production suddenly drops (i.e. you remove/loose fish) then a tank which was cycled can find it cycles suddenly.

Sop yes considering the tank appeared to be cycled and coping perfectly well with the ammonia from the 6 tetras before and only started cycling again when the betta was added, now the betta is gone then you only need enough bacteria to handle the bio load of the tetras, which you had before you got the betta.

 

[Lazerus]

Thats what I was thinking might be happening alright.

Well, great then. So, I'll know better in the next few days, but if my tank is ammonia free tomorrow & also nitrite free for the next few days, then I’ll be absolutely sure it’s cycled! Hallelujah!

Was in a fish shop to day on my way home and he had some Otocinclus…they weren’t called Affinus which would be the ones I want, but they sure looked like them. It sounded like Otocinclus Alando or Aranda or something like that.

Also this lad suggested I put 2 Odessa barbs in the tank? What do ye think….It wasn’t a fish I’d been looking into before as I thought Barbs were aggressive? Perhaps that’s just the Tiger Barbs.

His suggestion for my 10gal tank was:
10 Cardinal tetras
3 or 4 Otocinclus
2 Odessa Barbs

Too much?

I love the Honey Gouramis so I’m still thinking about those. Gorgeous fish….not sure which is which though…both appear to be labeled the same.

I also love the Paradise fish…another aggressive one though. So…I’ll put him and a Betta in together…Joke!

Actually, they look like a cross between a betta and a dwarf gourami!

Also love this fish...Galaxy Rasbora...really nice...but small.

Anyway…I’m rambling here. Talk later.

Editing to ad some pics...

 

[davefish]

I don't think Odessa Barbs are aggressive, although someone may correct me on that.

The Galaxy Rasbora was quite a recent discovery (2006 I think) and became very popular because they do look rather nice as you say. Unfortunately this led to overfishing and the destruction of their habitat by collectors, as a result they became under threat very quickly (in 2007). The only moral thing that aquarists can do in cases like this is to not buy them. So personally I wouldn't buy them and wouldn't recommend you buying them. However, if you are absolutely sure that they were bred in captivity then you could get some. I suppose another exception would have to be made if you were intending to breed them yourself, although I'm not sure you are set up for breeding. Your choice of course, and I am possibly a bit out of date as I am not sure of the current situation. Just thought it was worth a mention.

I think Honey Gourami would be ok, although I thought they were a lot more golden (and less orange) than the one in your picture, so maybe I am not thinking of the right fish.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

there's a couple of different species of otto, nopt sure exactly which one you've seen but make sure you look it up, there's a 'giant' species which gets considerably larger than the rest, it's by no means a monster at something like 5", but it's certainly too big to have 3/4 of them in a 10gal.... sp obviously a little bit of research here is the way forward. remember also otto's are delicate and don't acclimitise well, wait until the tank has been cycled for 3/4 months before you add them.

I'm not a massive barb fan, it's certainly the tigers which have the worst rep, not too sure on the rest of them though tbh.

well bettas, gourami's and paradise fish are all anabantoids so very broadly speaking are related.

if you can pick up the galaxy rasbora then by all means do, it is now illegal to import them so the only one's you'll find in the shops are captive bred. don't expect them to look anything like that pic when they're in the shops tank, they'll look more browny grey but will colour up once they're settled into a tank and feeling secure.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks for the input...

Now, just to clarify, I didn't see any Galaxy rasboras in the shop....I only saw them when I was looking for the pictures of the other fish. So, I guess I won't be buying those anyway Gorgeous little fellas though...isn't it amazing that there are still species out there to discover.

I think Honey Gourami would be ok, although I thought they were a lot more golden (and less orange) than the one in your picture, so maybe I am not thinking of the right fish.

Yes, well this is the confusion I appear to be having....

In three difrerent shops I have seen Honey Gourami listed up again three different fish, all of which would suit my tank apparently....but which one is which? I'll see if I can find some pics.

Dwarf Honey Gourami no.1

Dwarf Honey Gourami no.2

Dwarf Honey Gourami no.3

So confusing for a newbie like myself...I could end up coming home with something that will grow huge!!!

Anyway....After 24 hrs my readings this morning are:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

I'm not going to do any water change today so but I'll the tests again this evening just in case.


Edited later this evening @ 19.25pm (nearly 32 hours since last water change)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Ntrate: trace
Good stuff!!!

Edited again the next morning (over 49 hours since last water change)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Ntrate: trace

All systems go......

 

[Lazerus]

My tank appears to be stabilised and is now back to being cycled again.

Many, many, many thanks for all the help.

I really appreciated it....and thanks to this forum I managed to keep all my fish safe and healthy during the dreaded and very stressful 'fish in cycle' process. (Well, with the exception of poor Prince the Betta....but he's seems to have been an isolated case...and not tank related otherwise the other fish would have shown the same symptoms by now?)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I'm moving onto stocking queries and questions about general maintenance now.....

I know we spoke a few pages back about stocking levels, and I was given a few pointers, but I'm disappointed that I technically can't add anymore fish to my 10gal tank.

Going by the formula off another thread for stocking levels plus speaking to a couple of people online about it, going by the inch per gal rule...according to this I'm already overstocked with my six little cardinals?

Looking into my tank it seems hard to believe…they are lost in there.

Is there any chance for me to have more fish? Someone suggested one Dwarf Gourami and some shrimp….

But are there any other colourful types, low waste producers for example? I wanted to stay clear of the Dwarf Gourami because of their high risk of disease.

Any suggestions?

I really thought I could get more fish into this 10gal. What a pity.