10gal Tank Started 7th June 08 & Cycling With 6 Cardinals

[Miss Wiggle]

Well the standard advice we give to beginners is to stock to 1” per US gallon, you can count each of the cardinals as 1”…. Not quite correct but they are v low waste producers so it’s fine. So that takes you to 6 out of the standard 10” so not overstocked but not that far off full.

Now in a mature tank, with good filtration and an owner who is fastidious with maintenance you can push this guideline back a bit, some people stock up to 2” per gallon. Remember though that smaller tanks give much less margin for error, as you have seen with Prince even the smallest change in a small tank can have big repercussions, everything is magnified basically.

I wouldn’t advise you to add any more fish in the near future but don’t feel like you can never put anything else into the tank. I would recommend you wait 2/3 months until the tank is somewhere near maturity before adding anything else, but then you can gradually take the stocking up to 1.5” per gallon or something around that mark, which would be 15” of fish….. you’ve got 6 at the moment so you can see there’s room for some others.

As you like DG’s but not the health problems have you looked at rams or kribs, similar sized and also colourful, possibly one of them and then a group of 5 pgymy cories.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Miss Wiggle...ok, there's some promise there then. All is not lost!!Phew!!

I do wish I'd got a bigger tank to begin with though. Space is an issue.

(I was out with the inch tape measuring up my walls for the possibility of a bigger tank!! ha,ha!! There is only one place in my whole house that would suit a respectable sized tank out of sunlight and away from direct heat, and my TV is there in that corner at the moment! Anyway, it’s not really feasible for me with two smallies. Maybe when they are older.)

Anyway….ok, I’ll have to be patient…..its sooooo hard. 2 – 3 months!! Cripes!!!!! I'll go nuts by then!

So, I hadn’t seen Rams or Kribs yet….I must look them up and look out for them in the shops.

No harm in spending time researching…it’ll keep me going in the mean time….Or maybe I'll set that 5gal tank up after all with a fishless cycle to keep my busy. Hmmm.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

lol, also look up dwarf cichlids, apistogramma sp

 

[Lazerus]

lol, also look up dwarf cichlids, apistogramma sp

Oh love the Bolivian Rams and the Ram Cichlids!!! Can't believe these might be an option for me!!!!!

And they are South American, just like my Cardinal tetras...they'll be able to speak the same language! I joke of course!

And there is Agassizis Cichlids, Cockato Cichlids, Macmasters Dwarf cichlids & Panda Dwarf cichlids too although not as colourful.

How is that pronounced by the way...does it sound like 'sick'lid?

The Kribs are gorgeous too - I see they are African fish, yet they look quite similar to the Rams.

Definately a consideration, but I'm reading that these fish prefer a much lower PH....My tank is quite hight at 7.8! But then they say that about Cardinals too, and mine seem fairly happy so far. Are Dwarf Cichlids bottom dwellers or mid level swimmers?

I'm delighted!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you Miss Wiggle....there to save the day again!!!

Oh yeah, and just on the cory's (which are really, really cute by the way!) I thought these were only bottom waste eaters only and not actually algae eaters....Is this correct?

You see, the reason I was thinking of Oto's or Amano shrimp is that they'd get rid of the algae off the side of my glass and my resin logs & plants etc, do cory's do this also?

Sorry...loads more questions as usual!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Ha ha, everyone loves cichlids (yes sick lids is as the pronunciation)

Rams do prefer a lower pH, you might struggle with them at 7.8, the kribs would be quite happy with it though, not all of the apisto’s would cope with it but there are some species which will (I can’t remember exactly which ones but I think there was a post on this very subject in the new world cichlids forum a couple of days ago, tenohfive is in a similar situation to you I believe).

All of these fish will be in the bottom half of the tank but not actually on the bottom! They are generally cave dwellers so will be in the lower levels but will happily go up to the surface for food.

You’re correct the cory’s aren’t algae eaters…… they are however super cute and a sponge is great for cleaning up algae!!!

But yes you could substitute cory’s for a trio of otto’s or amino shrimp who would do some cleaning for you.

 

[Hallett]

I got like 20 fish in my 13 gallon. 25 water change once a month no casualties as yet.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Hallett,

Oh, I know it can be done alright, I've read alot about peoples stock levels for their 10gal and its seems to work out fine for them.

Its just I personally don't want to overcrowd my tank. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with it. But I did think I could put more in than just 6 cardinal tetras though! So it seems I can, even if it is only 4-5 more small fish. Im content enough with that.

Anyway, I spoke too soon about my tank being fully cycled so no more fish to be added for an even longer time now!!!

This mornings readings 72hrs after my water change were:
Ammonia:0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate:0ppm
(I didn't get to test the water last night, so thats possibly the reason why I didn't see it climb throughout yesterday)

Did my 30% water change as standard.

We'll keep at it.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I think it’s just because you’ve such a small amount of fish in and they are all low waste producers that it’s just taking it’s time to progress, because we’re talking such small concentrations of ammonia the test kits probably not picking it up. Now that’s no cause for concern because fish produce waste all the time so there is a constant background level of ammonia in every tank but it’s so low as to be undetectable with a home test kit, and also low enough to not cause any problems for the fish.

I think you just need to stick with the water changes and monitoring.

 

[Lazerus]

Yes....it must be that alright.

At least the fish won't be suffering anyway because of the low amounts of ammonia...

After 24 hrs, this mornings results were:
Ammonia:0pm
Nitrite: 0pm
Nitrate: trace

 

[Lazerus]

And 48hrs since last water change, at 8am on Sunday morning:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm

I was afraid to go tampering with my tank in case I ruined any good bacteria, but this morning I cleaned the algae off the glass of my tank using a 'cleany' magnet aquarium glass cleaner....it was getting to the point where I could barely see the fish behind the glass.

I haven't changed the water so all the algae particles are still in the tank just floating around or has gone into the filter....thats ok to that? Isn't it?

The whole tank is covered in algae though...Is it safe?

I don't want to go messing with the decorations, gravel and plastic plants etc. Is it ok just to leave them alone? They really are covered though.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't get too scared of the tank, the amount of bacteria living in the gravel and on ornaments is absolutley minimal, you can take things out and clean them.

now what's interesting is what algae feeds on is ammonia, if you've got an awful lot of algae it could be that this is what's 'eating' the ammonia and inhibitng the progress of your cycle.

i would clean the tank glass and ornaments, just don't touch the filter, try to keep it clean over the next few days wiping off any algae that grows and see what difference if any it makes.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Miss Wiggle,

I was abit dubious of fiddling around with the decorations but now that you are saying its ok to do this, I will (seeing as my tank is doing an excellent 'incredible hulk' impression at the moment.... )

Thats very interesting about the algae eating the ammonia.....Is this why I'm seeing 0ppm on Nitrites also? In fact I've never had a rise for Nitrite ever in the history of this tank...unless it happened in those first 2 fishless weeks.

The other thing thats strange is my Nitrate levels keep changing, one day they are 0ppm, the next they'll be showing some amounts, and the next day they'll be back to 0ppm again....even though I haven't changed any water...hmmm.

Anyway...how should I clean my things? I was going to use an old baby bottle brush or toothbrush or something? I've a resin logs, a resin barrel and loads of plastic plants...should I just rinse them under tap water or do I need to de-chlorify a bucket of water and wash them in that?

Sorry....I can't believe how clueless I am....

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Well if the algae is consuming all the ammonia that would mean the filter is not consuming any and as such no nitrite is being produced. It happens in heavily planted tanks, it’s called ‘silent cycling’ the plants use up all the ammonia so the filter never properly cycles or if it does it happens without any detectable ammonia or nitrite as the plants use up the remainder.

I expect it’s entirely possible for the same to happen with algae, it would obviously need a whole lot of algae and a minimal fish load. You’ve got the minimal fish load, the amount of algae you’d need for this is really just speculation, it’s not something I could quantify.

It’s certainly something to consider particularly as your cycle seems to be such a mystery.

Don’t worry about nitrate, nitrate test kits are notoriously unreliable and results should be taken as indicative at best, its ammonia and nitrite you need to focus on and our kits are much better for those.

To clean things just scrub them with a NEW toothbrush under the tap, rinse and dry then pop them back in the tank.

 

[Lazerus]

Well...the only thing about this algae business is that it only became visable last week....I didn't have any before really....Then it suddenly exploded all over the tank. Whats the story with that?

My readings this morning 72 hrs after a water change were:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

I didn't get around to cleaning the bits and pieces yet, but the glass is spotless now. Once I get an uninterrupted hour I'll clean all the stuff tomorrow....

(I got a new fridge freezer delivered today and the box from it is absolutely HUGE....that should keep my two busy for a good hour - i'll get it done then )

Ok...thanks once again for the info...its all really interesting. I'm really enjoying it all.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well i'm glad you are able to see the good side of things and enjoy the learning.

i could be totally wrong about the algae thing, it's pure speculation..... I'll be interested to see if anything changes after a big clean out though