Plant help questions

[utahfish]

H the ph is 5.5 so don’t need to worry about ammonia. The nitrate bacteria is doing its job as it’s converting some of the nitrite but my plants should be taking all the ammonium so there shouldn’t be nitrites. No one seems to be able to give me an answer as to why the nitrites are high and even at 2ppm but the fish are being normal. Ammonia is 0 so where could the nitrite be coming from? Bacteria shouldn’t even be growing at my PH

Are you using ammo lock or ammo chips. I know you said you dont worry about ammonia because of your low ph and when one uses any sort of product that claims to detoxify ammonia or nitrites or nitrates it will disrupt your biological filter and can lead to excess nitrate or nitrite reading. Thats why i asked. Once one can eliminate that as the source of the problem then move to next possible cause.

 

[Ben2522]

I see I am in the wrong here. Thanks for clearing that up.

However nitrite is more toxic at lower PH as per research I have done. Which is why I need to understand why there is nitrite if the bacteria shouldn’t be functioning at PH5.5. Although the plants are small, the amount of ammonium the 6 barbs produce is relative regardless of tank size surly? No one seems to be able to answer this question regarding why there is nitrite because of all of the above

 

[PheonixKingZ]

We have been doing the best we can, with what has been given to use...

 

[Ben2522]

Are you using ammo lock or ammo chips. I know you said you dont worry about ammonia because of your low ph and when one uses any sort of product that claims to detoxify ammonia or nitrites or nitrates it will disrupt your biological filter and can lead to excess nitrate or nitrite reading. Thats why i asked. Once one can eliminate that as the source of the problem then move to next possible cause.

Hi, I’m not using any liquid lock products. 0 ammonium in tank now.

 

[Ben2522]

We have been doing the best we can, with what has been given to use...

Appreciate it by the way. What other info can I provide that would help?

 

[Byron]

H the ph is 5.5 so don’t need to worry about ammonia. The nitrate bacteria is doing its job as it’s converting some of the nitrite but my plants should be taking all the ammonium so there shouldn’t be nitrites. No one seems to be able to give me an answer as to why the nitrites are high and even at 2ppm but the fish are being normal. Ammonia is 0 so where could the nitrite be coming from? Bacteria shouldn’t even be growing at my PH

True, the pH has a direct effect on nitrifying bacteria. These bacteria operate at close to 100% effectiveness at a pH of 8.3, and this level of efficiency decreases as the pH lowers. At pH 7.0 efficiency is only 50%, at 6.5 only 30%, and at 6.0 only 10%. Below 6.0 the bacteria enter a state of dormancy and cease functioning. [Kmuda, “Aquarium Bacteria and Filtration Manifesto,” Parts 1 and 2, OscarFish website.] Fortunately, in acidic water (pH below 7.0) ammonia automatically ionizes into ammonium which is basically harmless. And since nitrite will not be produced when the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are in “hibernation,” this decrease in their effectiveness poses no immediate danger to the fish and other life forms.

Given the above (which is cited from an article I wrote on bacteria some years ago for another forum) I would not expect nitrite at all. I have never had nitrite in any of my tanks, as the pH is always well below 7, and I have floating plants and sometimes lower plants. On the level, another citation from the article:

The fastest uptake of ammonia in an aquarium occurs with live plants; ammonia can be both assimilated (as a nutrient in the ionized form ammonium) and taken up (as a toxin, NH3) by plants. But ammonia is also taken up (though more slowly) by certain nitrifying bacteria, and this produces another form of nitrogen—nitrite, which is also highly toxic to all life at very low levels. Fish readily absorb nitrIte from the water and it combines with the hemoglobin in their blood, forming methaemoglobin. As a consequence, the blood cannot transport oxygen as easily and this can become fatal. At 0.25 ppm nitrite begins to affect fish after a short period; at 0.5 ppm it becomes dangerous; and at 1.0 ppm it is often fatal.

Given the fish seem to have no reaction at all, I would surmise the nitrite cannot be anywhere close to 2 ppm. If the test is accurate, then perhaps there is some other chemistry factor at work. That takes me way out of my depth.

 

[utahfish]

However nitrite is more toxic at lower PH as per research I have done. Which is why I need to understand why there is nitrite if the bacteria shouldn’t be functioning at PH5.5. Although the plants are small, the amount of ammonium the 6 barbs produce is relative regardless of tank size surly? No one seems to be able to answer this question regarding why there is nitrite because of all of the above

Appreciate it by the way. What other info can I provide that would help?

What levels of nitites/ nitrates are in the tap water?

 

[Ben2522]

True, the pH has a direct effect on nitrifying bacteria. These bacteria operate at close to 100% effectiveness at a pH of 8.3, and this level of efficiency decreases as the pH lowers. At pH 7.0 efficiency is only 50%, at 6.5 only 30%, and at 6.0 only 10%. Below 6.0 the bacteria enter a state of dormancy and cease functioning. [Kmuda, “Aquarium Bacteria and Filtration Manifesto,” Parts 1 and 2, OscarFish website.] Fortunately, in acidic water (pH below 7.0) ammonia automatically ionizes into ammonium which is basically harmless. And since nitrite will not be produced when the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are in “hibernation,” this decrease in their effectiveness poses no immediate danger to the fish and other life forms.

Given the above (which is cited from an article I wrote on bacteria some years ago for another forum) I would not expect nitrite at all. I have never had nitrite in any of my tanks, as the pH is always well below 7, and I have floating plants and sometimes lower plants. On the level, another citation from the article:

The fastest uptake of ammonia in an aquarium occurs with live plants; ammonia can be both assimilated (as a nutrient in the ionized form ammonium) and taken up (as a toxin, NH3) by plants. But ammonia is also taken up (though more slowly) by certain nitrifying bacteria, and this produces another form of nitrogen—nitrite, which is also highly toxic to all life at very low levels. Fish readily absorb nitrIte from the water and it combines with the hemoglobin in their blood, forming methaemoglobin. As a consequence, the blood cannot transport oxygen as easily and this can become fatal. At 0.25 ppm nitrite begins to affect fish after a short period; at 0.5 ppm it becomes dangerous; and at 1.0 ppm it is often fatal.

Given the fish seem to have no reaction at all, I would surmise the nitrite cannot be anywhere close to 2 ppm. If the test is accurate, then perhaps there is some other chemistry factor at work. That takes me way out of my depth.

Thanks I appreciate the detail. Yea no idea what’s going on. Liquid test kit on the way so will hopefully get some clarity. Thanks for the help.

 

[Ben2522]

What levels of nitites/ nitrates are in the tap water?

The tap water doesn’t produce a reading for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate so I assume 0.

 

[Byron]

You really can not expect so little of plants, to absorb it in that big of a tank. They physically can’t keep up!

We have to keep the specifics of this aquarium in mind. Five or six Tiger Barbs in a 55g tank, which has Wisteria growing...you would never see ammonia/ammonium here, ever, unless you dump it in. Fast growing plants can take up a lot of ammonia/ammonium.

The problem is that nitrite should not be occurring, unless it comes in with the source water (and that has been eliminated so far as I recall).

 

[utahfish]

The tap water doesn’t produce a reading for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate so I assume 0.

Im gonna guess that like Byron said something is giving you a false reading because 2.0 nitrite is fish death in a box.
I know a lot of posters dont trust the test strips because theyve been known to give false readings so a lot of people use the liquid drop testers. Maybe get hold of some of those and if you still get a 2.0 nitrite reading then who knows whats going on???

 

[Ben2522]

@Byron @PheonixKingZ I have been pondering on this. Could it be that the flow isnt good? Im using a spray bar at the top of the tank see image. From what I can tell the filter intake is bottom right the spray bar is top middle spraying at about a 45 degree angle to the front. How important is the flow for the plants to absorb the waste? Lets say if it was changed so that the top left sprayed from right to left and the water circulated clockwise. Would that make much difference to plant absorb rate? Could parts of the tank be stanant even though the top is moving? Clutching at straws of course. Nitrite still high today. Fish all fine.

See image Got more plants. Oh also, the brown algae is only near the front half of the tank. The back with the plants there is none?

 

[seangee]

Assuming those bubbles are from the spray bar that is more than enough flow. In fact way too much for my fish, although I don't know what the requirements are for barbs.
This thread is now a week old and, as others have pointed out, if your nitrite was at 2ppm you would no longer have any live fish in there.

Given the fish seem to have no reaction at all, I would surmise the nitrite cannot be anywhere close to 2 ppm. If the test is accurate, then perhaps there is some other chemistry factor at work. That takes me way out of my depth.

I can only echo this. I know it sounds like a cop out but as long as the fish and plants are healthy I would stop using this test and just enjoy the tank

 

[Ben2522]

Assuming those bubbles are from the spray bar that is more than enough flow. In fact way too much for my fish, although I don't know what the requirements are for barbs.
This thread is now a week old and, as others have pointed out, if your nitrite was at 2ppm you would no longer have any live fish in there.

I can only echo this. I know it sounds like a cop out but as long as the fish and plants are healthy I would stop using this test and just enjoy the tank

Ha. Yes I understand. However do i keep doing daily water changes do you think or just leave it?

 

[seangee]

Ah - didn't realise you were still doing daily changes.

1. What (if any) ferts are you using? (may affect the readings, may also apply if you are using some sort of specialist plant substrate)
2. How much water are you changing daily?
3. What are your readings immediately before and immediately after the water change?
4. What time of day do you change the water?

No science behind #4 . Would suggest extending the period between changes and observing what happens. Assuming you are stuck at home like the rest of us this would work best if you change first thing in the morning as you can "skip" the change and check in on your fish every hour. Obviously this is more risky if you change it just before going to bed as you can't observe the fish while you're asleep.