My Fishless Cycling With A Twist!

[TheMerovingian]

Bactinettes do not appear to have worked for me.

You can see my test results here --> [URL="http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en"]http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en[/URL]

They were added as an experiment as I have no intention of adding any fish for a while as I am going on holiday soon. The bactinettes were out of the fridge and into my external filter within 20 minutes.

are you still cycling?

 

[JenCliBee]

My levels have been constant with Efrens for the past 3 weeks since i Bactinated (© Axleuk 2008) my tank and as i have already seen breeding success i would suggest the levels are for most fish. If there is any long term effects no-one will know and its pointless waiting and waiting when realistically the results are acceptable.

again u have missed the process of the fishless cycle as ppl have stated ammonia into nitrites into nitrate, so basically ur tank isnt cycled if there is no rise in nitrate caused by the nitite!!!!! u say ur results follow efrens results well like him at some piont u will probably have a nitrite spike and it is uasaully a big 1 at that so basically all of the hard work u seem 2 have put in and stating that ur fish have spawned in ur tank will probably be a big disaster, u state that ur stats are good enough for ur fish 2 spawn well yes they probably are at te moment u have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites but thats now u still may and probably will have a nitrite spike and if high enough could and probably will kill ur fish and most definely the fry. just be aware before making such a statement that ur results are fine and efrens results mirror urs!!! u could still have major problems within sometime soon and that sometime could be 3 mnths away or even 2 morrow but again please stop rushing ppl 2 thinking there tank is cycled when the results do not show it.

Same for the guy who started this thread his tank has been cycled for the past few days but on advice he has been given he keeps adding ammonia to check the levels nothing wrong with this but should not be included in the time taken.

his quicknes in ammonia drop was caused by him using bactinetts so no his fishless cycled dint take 1 week and as far as it goes still not cycled even after using this so called magic juice, u may well be a very experinced fish keeper but u are stating things which are wrong, if there is no nitrates then nitrite isnt been processed how can u say that his cycle is done if the process isnt complete, if u have facts 2 stat that u shouldnt get nitrates during a fishless cycle then plz feel free 2 share it.


efren basically just carry on with the fishless cycle and wait till u have a nitrite result and the nitrate result, if not u are just asking for trouble!!!!



rant ended lol


jen

 

[Axleuk]

Bactinettes do not appear to have worked for me.

You can see my test results here --> [URL="http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en"]http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en[/URL]

They were added as an experiment as I have no intention of adding any fish for a while as I am going on holiday soon. The bactinettes were out of the fridge and into my external filter within 20 minutes.

What testing kit you using ?

 

[locust267]

Im with Vicki, my concern with the cycle Efren as previously mentioned, is the lack of nitrAtes, plus the fact you never saw any nitrItes.

Whilst maybe the bactinettes have indeed used up the ammonia, why did they not convert to nitrItes or why havent the nitrItes convereted to nitrAtes?

Can you tell me how long you are supposed to use these bactinettes in the filter? What happens when they run out? Or is it a case that they colonise your filter media and rapidly grow the beneficial bacteria that is needed ? Im confused, because once they are gone, if your media is not mature, then what happens with all the ammonia that your fish produce.

Bactinette make the claim that you can add fish straight away. I am sure this claim has been tried and tested blah blah blah. I now know of a few LFS that use it themselves in their own tanks and the fact that their business is fish supports my own appreciation.

Other well known brands such as cycle also make the claim you can add fish within 24-48 hours! We know this to be VERY false...

 

[wreckster]

Bactinettes do not appear to have worked for me.

You can see my test results here --> <a href="http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en" target="_blank">http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en</a>

They were added as an experiment as I have no intention of adding any fish for a while as I am going on holiday soon. The bactinettes were out of the fridge and into my external filter within 20 minutes.

are you still cycling?

yes I am, though I am expecting to start afresh when I return from my holiday as I dont have anyone available to feed the tank with ammonia while I am away.

Bactinettes do not appear to have worked for me.

You can see my test results here --> <a href="http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en" target="_blank">http/spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFt...UpbaA&hl=en</a>

They were added as an experiment as I have no intention of adding any fish for a while as I am going on holiday soon. The bactinettes were out of the fridge and into my external filter within 20 minutes.

What testing kit you using ?

API freshwater master test kit

 

[Axleuk]

Other well known brands such as cycle also make the claim you can add fish within 24-48 hours! We know this to be VERY false...

Because we have established that CYCLE is a poor product.

 

[locust267]

Other well known brands such as cycle also make the claim you can add fish within 24-48 hours! We know this to be VERY false...

Because we have established that CYCLE is a poor product.

My point being that just because a manufacturer makes a claim, doesn't mean that it is true.

I have heard of one person who said cycle worked, although I know of many more who said it is worthless. I guess bactinettes is hit and miss also but what we need to establish is whether or not it actually converts the ammonia to NitrIte and doesn't just REMOVE ammonia from the water, making the whole cycle pointless. It will be very interesting to keep up with this thread now there are a few of you using the product.

Also my previous questions were where are your ammonia and nitrite actually going if you do not see nitrate appearing?

Vicki

 

[Axleuk]

Guys,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on some points and remember that this thread is Efren documenting his finding using his chosen method and as a result we should not hijack it with further discussions. There are other threads available if you wish to discuss in detail the pros and cons of a variety of products.

I think its best if we keep detailed discussions to a minimum and concentrate on Efrens results.

 

[minxfishy]

Yes the bactinettes discussion has/is being done to death at the moment, but what we are trying to establish with Efren is, that just because his ammonia is not there anymore, does not mean that the tank is cycled.

In all honesty Efren the decision is yours, if you believe the tank to be ready for fish, then do so lightly. That way if you do see a nitrite spike, then it will be easier (hopefully) to deal with, rather than have a fully stocked tank.

I would be inclined to remove the bactinettes from the filter, add ammonia and see what happens then, if as stated by the manufacturer, it helps establish a good bacteria colony, then you should already have some good bacteria that would be able to convert the ammonia to nitrites etc. Its the only way to be sure you wont see a nitrite spike IMO once fish are added.

The choice Efren, as they say, is all yours!

 

[JenCliBee]

Guys,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on some points and remember that this thread is Efren documenting his finding using his chosen method and as a result we should not hijack it with further discussions. There are other threads available if you wish to discuss in detail the pros and cons of a variety of products.

I think its best if we keep detailed discussions to a minimum and concentrate on Efrens results.

i agree with u totally m8 but it was u tht said ur results mirrored efrens and claimed that ur tank is cycled but we are saying 1 thing and ur saying a completely different 1 !!!! like most of us said that we DONT think his tank is actually cycled so for ur results 2 be the same as efrens then ur tank probably isnt either lol
hence y so many of us are against forcing bactinettes on 2 ppl because by the sounds of it its not doing wot it claims 2 do

jen

 

[Axleuk]

Guys,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on some points and remember that this thread is Efren documenting his finding using his chosen method and as a result we should not hijack it with further discussions. There are other threads available if you wish to discuss in detail the pros and cons of a variety of products.

I think its best if we keep detailed discussions to a minimum and concentrate on Efrens results.

i agree with u totally m8 but it was u tht said ur results mirrored efrens and claimed that ur tank is cycled but we are saying 1 thing and ur saying a completely different 1 !!!! like most of us said that we DONT think his tank is actually cycled so for ur results 2 be the same as efrens then ur tank probably isnt either lol
hence y so many of us are against forcing bactinettes on 2 ppl because by the sounds of it its not doing wot it claims 2 do

jen

As i stated above i dont want to encourage further discussion in thread, i think we have frightened Efren or at least made him cry, lol.I will send you a PM Jen with mythoughts rather than continue the debate here, if you dont mind.

 

[locust267]

Agree totally but we are just stating that the use of bactinettes is not yet warrented and are trying to explain that just because bactinettes have been used that the filter is cycled.

If you read the majority of my points they are actually about lack of Nitrates. Plus asking where the ammonia and Nitrites are actually going, all of which I believe to be valued points to this.

Indeed there are many topics about the use of bactinettes, also the mention of them in many threads, most of which are yours On a serious note though regardless of our discussion, bactinettes have been used in this particular cycle and therefore are relevant to this thread and hence it being an interesting one to read.

 

[JenCliBee]

As i stated above i dont want to encourage further discussion in thread, i think we have frightened Efren or at least made him cry, lol.I will send you a PM Jen with mythoughts rather than continue the debate here, if you dont mind.

yeh m8 sure fell free 2 PM me



it's not that im having a go it's just for some reason u dont seem aware of certain cycleing processes and because u have had/are having the same experiences as efren i think it was just relivent 2 this topic it will help alot of others in the process of using so called products and make them aware of wot should be happening/not happening even while using them. even though they claim2 do wot the claim.


jen

 

[Axleuk]

As i stated above i dont want to encourage further discussion in thread, i think we have frightened Efren or at least made him cry, lol.I will send you a PM Jen with mythoughts rather than continue the debate here, if you dont mind.

yeh m8 sure fell free 2 PM me



it's not that im having a go it's just for some reason u dont seem aware of certain cycleing processes and because u have had/are having the same experiences as efren i think it was just relivent 2 this topic it will help alot of others in the process of using so called products and make them aware of wot should be happening/not happening even while using them. even though they claim2 do wot the claim.


jen

I can assure you i know more about cycling than you probably give me credit for.

 

[rhostog]

Guys,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on some points and remember that this thread is Efren documenting his finding using his chosen method and as a result we should not hijack it with further discussions. There are other threads available if you wish to discuss in detail the pros and cons of a variety of products.

I think its best if we keep detailed discussions to a minimum and concentrate on Efrens results.

Yes please - let's concentrate on Efren's situation. Efren is not sure whether his tank has cycled. He has added a lot of ammonia, which has since dropped. After an initial nitrite blip, he has not seen a corresponding increase in nitrite or nitrate. This is puzzling as the ammonia has to have gone somewhere. This applies whether he is using bottled bacteria, mature media, or bacteria growing 'naturally' in his filter.

One possible explanation is that there is something wrong with his test for nitrate (or ammonia, or nitrite). This is not unlikely, as a lot of people have problems with the nitrate test in particular, shaking the bottle for long enough, leaving it to stand for the correct amount of time. Also it is not unknown for the test to go off. You can check this by getting the water tested at your lfs and ask them to write down the results, especially the nitrate result.

A second possibility is that the bactinettes are not acting like 'normal' bacteria, and are not converting the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate - either mopping it up, or converting it to something else. This doesn't seem to be the case in others' reported experiences that I've read, but I don't know enough about them to be sure.

Another possible explanation is that there is something else in the tank which mops up ammonia, nitrite and/or nitrate which Efren hasn't yet mentioned, like Amquel plus, and which is distorting the test results. There are other unlikely possibilities but I'd want to rule out the others first.

We don't care at this stage whether there is nitrate in the tank - EXCEPT as an indicator of whether the tank is cycled and the bacteria are successfully processing ammonia and nitrite. If there really is no increase in nitrate, then the tank can't be conventionally cycled, because the bacteria will produce nitrate as their end product. This applies whether they are bottled, grown naturally, or from any other source. The only difference will be the time it takes to achieve the full cycle - which might be several weeks if you're waiting for them to grow naturally, or it might be a lot less if you add them from mature media (or if you add them successfully from a bottle).

Sorry Efren - you're getting a lot of very mixed information, because people are interested in the whole bottled bacteria issue (with some strong feelings on both sides). I would say, stay with minxfishy (who has been giving you excellent advice so far), and don't add fish until you can account for the strange test results you're getting. If it is a faulty nitrate test, then your tank may be cycled, and you might be fine, but if something else is going on, then you risk a lot of dead fish.

And please keep us posted - a lot of people are very interested in your results!