guppys being bullied and dying

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There are a few problems identified here.

First is the number of fish in a relatively small (100 liters, or roughly 25-6 gallons) tank. You don't give the numbers, but some of the mentioned species are shoaling fish which means they must have a group. Most sources will say six is minimum, but sometimes this is not sufficient...but you have to consider the tank space. Shoaling fish that are not kept in reasonable sized groups usually react with increased aggression, to each other and/or the other species. Tetras are shoaling fish, and the Black Widow/Black Skirt is a feisty (= aggressive) species prone to fin nip. Danio species are also shoaling; some catfish are as well (you don't mention what you have). And the groups must be of the individual species, so for example 6-8 zebra danios, 6-8 Black Skirt Tetras, 6-8 Neon Danios. These numbers are only basic guides, you haven't room for all of these fish, so some will have to be removed.

Second problem is temperature. "Tropical" fish do not need water anywhere near the temperature you mention of 28-30 C. This is much too warm for the species mentioned. Fish are ectothermic, which is commonly called "cold-blooded." This means that the temperature of the water in which they find themselves governs their metabolism. Their internal functions operate according to the temperature. This is much too involved to go into in detail, but I can say that as the temperature increases, the fish's metabolism works harder, much harder, and this literally wears the fish out. They will be stressed, which means their immune system is weakened, so they are more likely to get diseases that they would (should) otherwise fight off easily. They likely will become more aggressive, though this varies. Point is, keep them in the lower mid of the recommended range for the species, and each species has its range.

Water parameters were mentioned by one member but not answered. Hardness is critical to fish, some need harder water (containing more dissolved minerals), others the opposite, some manage roughly in between within reason. Mollies must have harder water than any of the other species mentioned in post #1. Without knowing the GH I can't offer much more on this.

Some of the fish are not going to work long-term in this tank, given the space and the other inhabitants. I don't know what "algae eaters" refers too, but some of these are trouble. "Sharks" are always likely to be problematic, and these two should go elsewhere. And before it is said, the fact that for several months things seemed to you to be working does not mean they really are in the best interests of the fish.

Byron.
 
There are a few problems identified here.

First is the number of fish in a relatively small (100 liters, or roughly 25-6 gallons) tank. You don't give the numbers, but some of the mentioned species are shoaling fish which means they must have a group. Most sources will say six is minimum, but sometimes this is not sufficient...but you have to consider the tank space. Shoaling fish that are not kept in reasonable sized groups usually react with increased aggression, to each other and/or the other species. Tetras are shoaling fish, and the Black Widow/Black Skirt is a feisty (= aggressive) species prone to fin nip. Danio species are also shoaling; some catfish are as well (you don't mention what you have). And the groups must be of the individual species, so for example 6-8 zebra danios, 6-8 Black Skirt Tetras, 6-8 Neon Danios. These numbers are only basic guides, you haven't room for all of these fish, so some will have to be removed.

Second problem is temperature. "Tropical" fish do not need water anywhere near the temperature you mention of 28-30 C. This is much too warm for the species mentioned. Fish are ectothermic, which is commonly called "cold-blooded." This means that the temperature of the water in which they find themselves governs their metabolism. Their internal functions operate according to the temperature. This is much too involved to go into in detail, but I can say that as the temperature increases, the fish's metabolism works harder, much harder, and this literally wears the fish out. They will be stressed, which means their immune system is weakened, so they are more likely to get diseases that they would (should) otherwise fight off easily. They likely will become more aggressive, though this varies. Point is, keep them in the lower mid of the recommended range for the species, and each species has its range.

Water parameters were mentioned by one member but not answered. Hardness is critical to fish, some need harder water (containing more dissolved minerals), others the opposite, some manage roughly in between within reason. Mollies must have harder water than any of the other species mentioned in post #1. Without knowing the GH I can't offer much more on this.

Some of the fish are not going to work long-term in this tank, given the space and the other inhabitants. I don't know what "algae eaters" refers too, but some of these are trouble. "Sharks" are always likely to be problematic, and these two should go elsewhere. And before it is said, the fact that for several months things seemed to you to be working does not mean they really are in the best interests of the fish.

Byron.
good morning Byron,

thank you for taking the time to write me a very detailed response. I appreciate it and espeically being new to tropical fish I joined this forum so I can provide the best care in their interest.

what temperature must the tank be then (I'm really questioning GOOGLE late because the advise I'm being given is not in the best interest of the fish). I have called my fish shop and am going to be taking the Black widow tetra's back; if my focus if primarily the guppies I wish to have; what other of the shoaling fish do I remove as well?

I do not know how to test hard versus soft water? but in saying that if the molly's need harder water it is clear that they too must go :(

my catfish is a hider and i rarely see him/her. Always hidden under the gravel or decorations.

Also, the albino sharks I have keep to themselves and have not been troublesome to date. I have only seen the molly's, platy's and Black widow tetra display signs of aggression.

as for the numbers of fish; if the fish I currently have are shoaling (the danios and Black widow) then I definitely cannot have them as mentioned my primary like is guppy's. I have two neon danios, two black widow tetras, two red eye tetras, two zebra danios.

so essentially, do I get rid of all my fish bar the guppy's and start again :(.

thank you, Diane
 
good morning Byron,

thank you for taking the time to write me a very detailed response. I appreciate it and espeically being new to tropical fish I joined this forum so I can provide the best care in their interest.

what temperature must the tank be then (I'm really questioning GOOGLE late because the advise I'm being given is not in the best interest of the fish). I have called my fish shop and am going to be taking the Black widow tetra's back; if my focus if primarily the guppies I wish to have; what other of the shoaling fish do I remove as well?

I do not know how to test hard versus soft water? but in saying that if the molly's need harder water it is clear that they too must go :(

my catfish is a hider and i rarely see him/her. Always hidden under the gravel or decorations.

Also, the albino sharks I have keep to themselves and have not been troublesome to date. I have only seen the molly's, platy's and Black widow tetra display signs of aggression.

as for the numbers of fish; if the fish I currently have are shoaling (the danios and Black widow) then I definitely cannot have them as mentioned my primary like is guppy's. I have two neon danios, two black widow tetras, two red eye tetras, two zebra danios.

so essentially, do I get rid of all my fish bar the guppy's and start again :(.

thank you, Diane

Hi,

see the link re the temperature (which equates to 27 on the high end);
Keep guppies' water temperatures between 74 and 82 degrees Fahrenheit. These optimal water temperatures are similar to those of most tank fish. Aquarium residents generally succeed in temperatures that are in the range of 70 to 80 degrees.
 
I do not know how to test hard versus soft water?
You can try and look on your water authority web site.
Or you can as your LFS.
Or take a sample to a LFS and ask them to test it, Get the actual numbers.




Point is, keep them in the lower mid of the recommended range for the species, and each species has its range.
Great advice as always

I notice most fish keepers tend to keep their fish at the upper level temp, especially Betta keepers.
 
what temperature must the tank be then (I'm really questioning GOOGLE late because the advise I'm being given is not in the best interest of the fish). I have called my fish shop and am going to be taking the Black widow tetra's back; if my focus if primarily the guppies I wish to have; what other of the shoaling fish do I remove as well?

The temperature must be based upon the fish species in the aquarium, and as these may vary, it is one of the criteria we use when deciding on species for a community tank. [A community aquarium means one housing more than just one species of fish.] If only guppies were intended, then the approximate range for temperature might be between 17 and 28 C. This is a significant range as you can see, but it represents the range within which the guppy should manage. But this does not mean it should be at either end permanently. Normally, somewhere in the middle works best long-term; the extremes are only temporary. There are always exceptions, one cannot have positive "rules" when dealing with living creatures, but this is a good guide to follow. As I explained previously, every species of fish in freshwater has evolved to function best in fairly specific parameters, and keeping the species in those parameters will always mean healthier fish, so this is a good basis.

As for removing the other fish, that is up to you. The Black Widow are going, that is a good idea, given their temperament. Danios are active fish, but this won't bother guppies. The zebra danio, in a group of 7-8, could manage here. I need to know exactly what species "neon danio" refers to before I can suggest keeping or removing these. The red eye tetra (not exactly sure what species this is, common names can be confusing as they vary from country to country or aquarist to aquarist) is probably best removed; this will need a group too obviously if retained.

Aquarium residents generally succeed in temperatures that are in the range of 70 to 80 degrees.

This statement (wherever it came from) means that the temperature for most aquarium fish will be somewhere in the 70-80F range (which is true), but it is not intended to mean that every fish will manage anywhere within this range. Some species are healthiest at the lower end of this range and will begin to have issues with warmer temperatures, while other species are the opposite.

As for the hardness of the water, you can (or should) find this on your municipal water authority's website, or you can call them. We (you) need to know the GH (general hardness), pH and KH (carbonate hardness or alkalinity, worth knowing while we're at this).
 
Higher temps generally shorten life span of fish. Ironically some of the common plants we grow will actually do better with slightly cooler temps. Mosses are good examples of this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
The temperature must be based upon the fish species in the aquarium, and as these may vary, it is one of the criteria we use when deciding on species for a community tank. [A community aquarium means one housing more than just one species of fish.] If only guppies were intended, then the approximate range for temperature might be between 17 and 28 C. This is a significant range as you can see, but it represents the range within which the guppy should manage. But this does not mean it should be at either end permanently. Normally, somewhere in the middle works best long-term; the extremes are only temporary. There are always exceptions, one cannot have positive "rules" when dealing with living creatures, but this is a good guide to follow. As I explained previously, every species of fish in freshwater has evolved to function best in fairly specific parameters, and keeping the species in those parameters will always mean healthier fish, so this is a good basis.

As for removing the other fish, that is up to you. The Black Widow are going, that is a good idea, given their temperament. Danios are active fish, but this won't bother guppies. The zebra danio, in a group of 7-8, could manage here. I need to know exactly what species "neon danio" refers to before I can suggest keeping or removing these. The red eye tetra (not exactly sure what species this is, common names can be confusing as they vary from country to country or aquarist to aquarist) is probably best removed; this will need a group too obviously if retained.



This statement (wherever it came from) means that the temperature for most aquarium fish will be somewhere in the 70-80F range (which is true), but it is not intended to mean that every fish will manage anywhere within this range. Some species are healthiest at the lower end of this range and will begin to have issues with warmer temperatures, while other species are the opposite.

As for the hardness of the water, you can (or should) find this on your municipal water authority's website, or you can call them. We (you) need to know the GH (general hardness), pH and KH (carbonate hardness or alkalinity, worth knowing while we're at this).

Byron, hello. Again, thank you very much for your advise. It is greatly appreciated. The first thing I did yesterday after reading your mail was rush home and reduce the temp (the middle range; not high or low end). I shall action the rest as above and here's hoping a healthier happier tank.

By the way, when I started my tank; I requested from every aquarium outlet that they be non aggressive and co-habitate well together (clearly; again I was misinformed).

regards,
 
Byron, hello. Again, thank you very much for your advise. It is greatly appreciated. The first thing I did yesterday after reading your mail was rush home and reduce the temp (the middle range; not high or low end). I shall action the rest as above and here's hoping a healthier happier tank.

By the way, when I started my tank; I requested from every aquarium outlet that they be non aggressive and co-habitate well together (clearly; again I was misinformed).

regards,

Stores are hit and miss when it comes to knowledgeable advice. I was indeed fortunate when I got into the hobby seriously back in the early 1980's that I did so through a local store that was owned by an experienced hobbyist (two in partnership actually) and staffed solely by hobbyists. For what they didn't know, they never guessed but sent me to reference books (no internet back then, lol) so that was another valuable lesson--research first. Not everyone has this luck.

Building a community aquarium is not as simple as many might think, and it takes a lot of knowledge. Have a read of the article I linked in another thread recently, here it is again:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co....W&email_hash=9357f00ddcdf3a297acf594914ed58b5

The thread is here, in case something occurs with the link:
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/compatibility-described.443226/unread

Byron.
 
Stores are hit and miss when it comes to knowledgeable advice. I was indeed fortunate when I got into the hobby seriously back in the early 1980's that I did so through a local store that was owned by an experienced hobbyist (two in partnership actually) and staffed solely by hobbyists. For what they didn't know, they never guessed but sent me to reference books (no internet back then, lol) so that was another valuable lesson--research first. Not everyone has this luck.

Building a community aquarium is not as simple as many might think, and it takes a lot of knowledge. Have a read of the article I linked in another thread recently, here it is again:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co....W&email_hash=9357f00ddcdf3a297acf594914ed58b5

The thread is here, in case something occurs with the link:
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/compatibility-described.443226/unread

Byron.
again, thank you Byron,
UPDATE: I removed the danios (zebra and neon), the black skirt widows and fan tail molly. Further reduced the heat in the tank and cross fingers; the tank is very happy and quiet now with no nippers/bullies.

thank you for the link; I appreciate as much info to ensure I'm doing what's best for the fish.
Diane
 
Hey,
I saw u were online and wanted to know anything about endlers
i just got a new fishtank but I am not new to them and I have 4 endlers 2 are chasing one that is blue and i don't know why
please help :fish::-(
 
Hey,
I saw u were online and wanted to know anything about endlers
i just got a new fishtank but I am not new to them and I have 4 endlers 2 are chasing one that is blue and i don't know why
please help :fish::-(

How big is your tank? Do you know whether your fish are male or female?
 
Endlers are easy to sex. You need to look at the anal fin (that's the one on the fish's stomach, just in front of the tail). Males will have a rod like structure called a gonopodium, while females will have a normal fan-shaped fin.

Endlers can be quite aggressive if their tank is too small, or too bare, or if you have too many males and not enough females.
 
Endlers are easy to sex. You need to look at the anal fin (that's the one on the fish's stomach, just in front of the tail). Males will have a rod like structure called a gonopodium, while females will have a normal fan-shaped fin.

Endlers can be quite aggressive if their tank is too small, or too bare, or if you have too many males and not enough females.
thanks so much
 

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