Doggiebag's First Fishless Cycle - Juwel Rekord 600

[doggiebag]

Okay Guys, after doing 2 fish in cycles in tandem and stressing over daily waterchanges, I have learnt the hard way lol

My new tank is being done fishless.

Juwel Rekord 600, heater and filter that came with tank. API Master Test Kit, Homebase ammonia 9.5%, Tetra Pond Aqua Safe dechlorinator, roman gravel added no decor yet (don't see the point in it getting brown algae over it till its complete.


Day 0: 09/01/09: Set tank up, ran for 24 hours......temp at 28C, will eventually be a tank for WCMM so will run at room temp (currently around 24C-26C) or around the 20C mark in winter (depending on what I add with them, with help of heater if needed)........
Ph 7.8, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, these are the base readings from 24 hours in tank, nothing but dechlorinator added........about 2 months ago my tap water nitrite was 10, seems to have increased over summer......

Day 1: 10/08/09: Ammonia added 9am, ammonia 4-5ppm
Added 3ml ammonia, this took reading to around 6-7ppm (hard to tell api test kit reads 4 or 8), was concerned about encouraging wrong bacteria if it was too near 8......did a 15" waterchange and it is now around 4-5ppm, so will try reducing dose to around 2.75 in future. Now just a waiting game......

Day 2: no testing as ammonia won't drop just yet, tank lovely and cloudy now lol

Day 3 : 12/08/09: Ph 8.0, Ammonia 3.0-4.0, Nitrites <0.25, approx 0.15-0.20, pale lilac a definite reading.......bit early to see nitrites isn't it? Tank not as cloudy now, slowly clearing, a couple more days should do it.

Day 4: 13/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0.25. Tank almost clear now, another day and it should be crystal

Day 5: 14/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0.25

Day 6: 15/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0.25

Day 7: 16/08/09:Ph 8.2, Ammonia 3, Nitrites <0.25 (0.15)

Day 8: 17/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites <0.25 (0.10). Appears the initial nitrite readings may have been due to tank settling or something, as they have now dropped and cycle appears more as expected. Hoping to see the ammonia drop very soon........

Day 9: 18/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites <0.25 (0.10)

Day 10: 19/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0

Day 11: 20/08/09: Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0

Day 12: 21/08/09: Ph 8.2, Ammonia 3, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 20

Day 13: 22/08/09: Ammonia 2, Nitrites 0.25 at last, I think it's starting !!!! Whoo-hoo

Day 14: 23/08/09: Ammonia 2, Nitrites 1.0

Day 15: 24/08/09: Ammonia 1, Nitrites 5 ( nearly off scale as the drops turned sort of deep blue/purplish in bottom, though not immediately, reckon off the scale tomorrow though)

Day 16: 25/08/09: ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+ (drops purple in bottle), nitrates 40-80 (I find this test hard to read past 40, but its definitely much darker than Im used to seeing on any of my tanks)
I added 1ml of ammonia back, then retested it at 2ppm, will keep dosing at that level till I see nitrites drop, in the distant future lol

Day 17: 26/08/09: Ph 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5+ (drops turned purple but test goes darkest purple after 5mins, so not as high as it can go, yet)
added 1.2ml ammonia (2-3ppm)

Day 18: 27/08/09: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 19: 28/08/09: Ph 8.1, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+, Nitrates 80+ (hard to read), added 2ppm ammonia back in

then, to be sure, I tested nitrites at 1/20 strength, got a reading of 1.0, tested nitrates at 1/20 got a reading of 20, so that would put nitrites at 20 and nitrates at 400 ish.............I thought the nitrite test went turquoise when its off the chart? Mine goes the darkest purple on the sheet........but dilutes to 1/20=1.0................

Day 20: 29/08/09: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable..........colour not on chart. Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 21: 30/08/09: Ph 8.1, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable again......Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Okay, what is happening with nitrates? Usually when I put first bottle in the water goes pure yello, then when I add bottle 2 and shake for a min, the mix turns orange and then develops into deep orange/red over the 5 min............this is what is happening in my other tanks.......
however, for the past 2 days in this tank the first bottle turns a deep golden brown in the tube, then I add bottle two and shake, no change, then over the 5 min wait it doesn't change, just stays a deep golden brown.................how on earth do I interpret this? What is happening. does nitrate test act odd if off scale???

Day 22: 31/08/09: Ph 8.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 5+ didn't test nitrates as it seems the test can't be accurate with these levels of nitrites. Added 2ppm ammonia back in.

Day 23: 1/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 24: 2/9/09: ph 8.1, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 25: 3/9/09: ph 8.1, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 26: 4/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 27: 5/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 28: 6/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 29: 7/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 30: 8/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 31: 9/9/09: ph 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+. added 2ppm ammonia back in still no changes........will keep waiting, no PH crash so looking okay...........just started another tank 12 days ago and that one has just finished the nitrite spike, had some help though.......this one will have to wait it out lol


COMPARISON THREAD POSTED: Have just added a thread for my hex tank, with help from stability, interesting results.........see thread here........Doggiebags 2nd fishless cycling, using Seachem Stability and 21 litre Hex tank


Day 32: 10/09/09: Ph 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 80-160 YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEE I cannot believe it has finally dropped, what a great feeling to see that lovely pale blue !!!!!!! Woo-hoo!!!!! You can't see me but I am dancing right now lol
Have upped the ammonia to 4-5ppm and will see if it drops to 0 overnight, once it does will then start testing at 12hour points........nearly there........

is the nitrate okay? Or should I waterchange......ph seems pretty stable at present but it is very close to the 160 mark.....

Update: I just did a 70% waterchange, making sure the water added was same temp/dechlorinated. I added 70% ammonia back in too.
The nitrates now sit at between 40-80, so gives me some breathing space, was creeping too high before..........will see how things go now.

Day 33: 11/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.....processing upped ammonia level in 24 hours, so will begin 12 hour testing today, added 4-5ppm ammonia.
PM TEST: ammonia trace 0.10, nitrite 1

Day 34: 12/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 1

Day 35: 13/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75 actually 13 hours not 12

Day 36: 14/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1

Day 37: 15/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1

Day 38: 16/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1

Day 39: 17/09/09:
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75

things really not moving on now.....seems to be stuck at 1 nitrite at 12 hours for days now.....

Day 40: 18/09/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, added 4-5ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, at last, 0's at 12 hours..........am I on to the qualifying week now?


Day 41: 19/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 42: 20/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.50

Day 43: 21/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 44: 22/09/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 45: 23/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, 90% waterchange, added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 46: 24/09/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 47: 25/09/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 48: 26/09/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0

Day 49: 27/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4-5 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0

Day 50: 28/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.50-1.0 maybe 0.75

Day 51: 29/09/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0

Day 52: 30/09/09
AM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 0, added 4ppm ammonia
PM TEST:ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0, tested again at 14 hours nitrite <0.25 about 0.20 is this usual? to get 0's one day or two, then get 1.0!? driving me nuts now..............I can see no end to it lol


Day 53: 01/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 54: 02/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 55: 03/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 56: 04/10/09:
AM TEST: ph 7.8, ammonia 0.50, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75

Day 57: 05/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0

Day 58: 06/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0.25, nitrite 1.0

Day 59: 07/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 60: 08/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, did a 90% waterchange, very lightly cleaned filter, added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 61: 09/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.50

Day 62: 10/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 63: 11/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25

Day 64: 12/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75

Day 65: 13/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75

Day 66: 14/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75

Day 67: 15/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.75


this is seriously driving me loopy now, it must have been over a month ago I got my first 0 nitrite at 12 hours, since then it has just not held it, not sure what to do really........


Day 68: 16/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.40 (at 13.5 hours, not 12)

Day 69: 17/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 70: 18/10/09: removed old filter floss and stuffed new floss in gap between sponges.
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 71: 19/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 1.0

Day 72: 20/10/09:
AM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0 added 4 ppm ammonia
PM TEST: ammonia 0, nitrite 0.50-0.75


tested tonight and its back to 1.0 again, plus the other tank has risen a teeny bit too. I want to scream, this fishless cycling lark is driving me mad, it is taking sooooooooooooooooooooo long, this tank shows no sign of coming to an end.

 

[Harlequins]

Good luck

 

[doggiebag]

Thanks.........after adding the ammonia the tank is now so cloudy I can't see in.........hoping its just bacteria bloom as it was clear before ammonia. Will sit it out and hope it clears in a few days/week. Looks horrid now though lol

 

[yasinullah]

hey doggiebag, good luck with your cycle, I have the same tank as you
the cloudiness will clear in a few days, its normal with a new set up. If you are not planting the tank during cycling, then you should cover the tank with a towel or something = no brown algae thus far

 

[doggiebag]

oh, that's a good tip, mind you I don't mind cleaning the glass/gravel anyway, it always comes off real easy, bought nerites for my other tanks and they adore the stuff....
Yeah I had cloudiness in both my fish-in cycle tanks, that was mild though and cleared in 2 days. This one looks like a smoke bomb went off in there lol I guess because it had so much ammonia added in one go.........
Hubby keeps complaining about the dull hum the pump makes, can't do much about that, but then he also complains about the trickling sound from my 25 litre tank, can't win.
Thanks for the encouragement guys, hang in there, Im gonna need you through the long haul....

no tests today, seems pointless as the ammonia probably won't shift for at least a week.....

 

[OldMan47]

Have a close look at your ammonia Doggiebag. Does it say that it is cloudy ammonia? If it does it has soap in it and you need to get clear ammonia instead. Cloudy ammonia is not a bad window washing fluid but is not what you want to cycle your tank.

 

[doggiebag]

oh crikey, don't say that!! Okay, I bought the Homebase Household Ammonia, on the back it says: CONTAINS-Ammonia Solution 9.5%, doesn't mention anything about cloudy...........thought it was okay as it is recommended on here....

If I shake it there are few large bubbles that disappear within a few seconds, nothing frothy, and I can clearly see to the bottom of the bottle. So it looks fairly clear. It only clouded about 2 hours after adding ammonia, not on contact....

 

[OldMan47]

OK, just a bit concerned because a product called cloudy ammonia is really ammonia with soap added. It is also about 9.5 % ammonia but has cleaning agent added for people who use ammonia as a cleaning product, everyone except us. Your description of rapid water clarity change just triggered that memory for me. My head is full of useless information that sometimes adds up to mean something.

 

[doggiebag]

do you think Im okay? I just went with this as I saw it on threads here, I have the same pictured bottle shown here..

 

[jmkgreen]

That stuff's fine - I use it without any cloudiness. Just don't bother switching your lights on!

 

[doggiebag]

Thanks, will keep going and see what happens then..........if no progress then will change it.

Day 3 : 12/08/09: Ph 8.0, Ammonia 3.0-4.0, Nitrites <0.25, approx 0.15-0.20, pale lilac a definite reading.......bit early to see nitrites isn't it? Tank not as cloudy now, slowly clearing, a couple more days should do it.

 

[Tropical_Fish]

That's the stuff I used and it did the trick fine! I never had a cloudy tank though, I also never got any algae during the fishless cycle.

 

[doggiebag]

I have previously done 2 fish-in cycles on 25 litre tanks and they went cloudy on first 3 days too.....might just be our water lol Didn't look as dense as this tank but then again the volume of water was less......

 

[OldMan47]

It is very early to be seeing any nitrites without doing a filter clone. Nonetheless, it is what it is. If you are actually processing a little ammonia, that is encouraging. When you next see your ammonia at zero, why not rinse out oyur old filters in the new tank. I find that can give my fishless cycles a big boost in most cases. It is like adding some bacteria that are really alive, not dead in the bottle.

 

[doggiebag]

I thought it was a bit early too, not convinced myself lol will be more happy when I see a real drop in ammonia, though it was a teeny bit lighter than before. Not sure if I should rinse the sponges though, as my minnow tank has really only been at zero's for about 2 weeks, so very newly cycled. It took me over 70 days to get that tank through the fish-in cycle so don't want to undo any stability I have in there at present.........my betta tank cycled in 30 days but then after 10 days of zero's seems to be mini-cycling again with trace ammonia for the past week, very annoying. Fishless is deffo the way to go, far less stressful (famous last words)
It is really weird to see the ammonia test go so green, doing the fisless ones I never saw it go above 025-0.50, so its a novelty to see the strong deep greens lol
So, from what Ive read I just wait till ammonia hits 0 then add another 4-5ppm then wait again and so on?