Algal Rollercoaster Ride

I think you can prevent most types of algae with your initial setup & I think it's not about combatting it once it arrives, but preventing it by creating an environment that prevents it from the beginning. I'll get into this more when I get to work, but I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you there.

Saw the vid, Mark. Super cute ram. I'll address my impressions of the algae later. But the ram is adorable.

Liz
 
I think you can prevent most types of algae with your initial setup & I think it's not about combatting it once it arrives, but preventing it by creating an environment that prevents it from the beginning. I'll get into this more when I get to work, but I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you there.

Saw the vid, Mark. Super cute ram. I'll address my impressions of the algae later. But the ram is adorable.

Liz


No i totally agree with trying to combat the problem from the offset and is of course the best approach.. that really goes without saying... i said it is unlikely you will do so completely... Have a look at most of the journals and i pretty much guarantee most have had some sort of algae problem with new setups even some with old setups.... yes there are people that are lucky enough for it to be either a very small problem or a problem that is easily combated, however some people (in this case) have really bad trouble and finding the problem now is the only method obviously.

I cant speculate on your experience regarding the EI method and pressurised co2 enrichment Liz because i simply dont know how or if you've used these methods either separately or together in the time of keeping plants?... all i know is EI method was a complete contrast to using all in one made solutions like TPN+, From my experience it takes alot more monitoring and getting and finding the balance was far harder which is why i say 'some sort' of algae outbreak is inevitable :good:.

I think everybody has there own experiences some just have better than others lol.
 
Will address this better at work but just can't resist... :lol:

If you have the proper setup from the get-go, you won't have an algae problem at all, or at the very most, one that can be managed very easily. It isn't a matter of a scaper just getting "lucky".

Again will address this & comment on your vid, Mark, at work.

Liz
 
Will address this better at work but just can't resist... :lol:

If you have the proper setup from the get-go, you won't have an algae problem at all, or at the very most, one that can be managed very easily. It isn't a matter of a scaper just getting "lucky".

Again will address this & comment on your vid, Mark, at work.

Liz


I beg to differ.... go over to a planted tank forum and have a look at alot of the journals, experienced to beginner scapers and compare how many have a 'certain amount' of algae problems to the amount that dont.

Have you never had a algae breakout/problem in your setup's?

I dont understand your logic with getting the tank setup correct from the offset.... so you yourself can get the exact amount of co2 correct, ratio of flow to avoid dead spots correct... correct fert dosing.... maintenance regime.... from the offset?.

I bet you will find alot of even the most of experienced scapers will say there will often be algae related problems for new setups even some older setups.

I agree get every aspect of the tanks balanced and yes the chances are very high in reducing algae... the balance though isn't just sorted over a matter of hours.. sometimes it takes weeks.... these weeks taken account for many aspects to why and if algae does have a outbreak.

I could point you to some of the top aquascaper having had algae problems and these people know what there doing lol.

Not intended to be any sort of argument but i find it very difficult to understand how you think a balanced tank from the offset can be established without any algae making trial and error? (in most cases)... please enlighten me ;)

Back to the OP's problems though..i read a little more of his problems here and on another forum.... now going by his regime, his setup etc etc... you would consider that everything is been done as it should be... i cant see an individual section which he hasn't addressed or isn't doing correctly..... leads to to think uneven distribution of co2... soooo with this in mind.... i have one more question to the OP

Have you moved your drop checker around the tank to ensure the co2 level is been distributed evenly?.... just because it shows good levels where it currently is, doesn't mean the levels arnt fluctuating elsewhere causing your algae problems.
 
Will address this better at work but just can't resist... :lol:

If you have the proper setup from the get-go, you won't have an algae problem at all, or at the very most, one that can be managed very easily. It isn't a matter of a scaper just getting "lucky".

Again will address this & comment on your vid, Mark, at work.

Liz


I beg to differ.... go over to a planted tank forum and have a look at alot of the journals, experienced to beginner scapers and compare how many have a 'certain amount' of algae problems to the amount that dont.

Have you never had a algae breakout/problem in your setup's?

I haven't had a serious algal outbreak since my first scape, over five years ago. Everything else has fallen under the category of "manageable" or "not worth adressing because it's too small a problem" or simply "not present". And I say it in my journal. Right now, there's some green spot in my ADA, on the glass, but it's like a couple spots only, so who cares?

I dont understand your logic with getting the tank setup correct from the offset.... so you yourself can get the exact amount of co2 correct, ratio of flow to avoid dead spots correct... correct fert dosing.... maintenance regime.... from the offset?.

Yes, in fact, I can. Decide on your lighting. Decide on your flow (mine has always been heavy). Decide on your CO2 regimen. Decide on your ferts. Decide on your plantmass. Decide on your photoperiod. THEN setup the tank. Then keep it agressively clean for the first month or two and don't rescape for a period of time after the initial planting. This how I have done things since my first planted tank. I truely apologize if I'm coming across as rude. I don't intend it. I'm just get really frustrated for people who don't do this initially and then have algae problems. Algae takes all the fun and pleasure out of having a planted tank.

I bet you will find alot of even the most of experienced scapers will say there will often be algae related problems for new setups even some older setups.

Most new tanks suffer from Diatoms due to ammonia build up, regardless of whether it's a planted tank or not. Remove the ammonia source, no diatoms. Buy otos, no diatoms. Sorry, I'm going to come across as a snob, it's not my intention. If experienced scapers are experiencing algae problems, perhaps they are not so experienced. Scaping a tank and growing plants are two different things in my humble opinion.

I agree get every aspect of the tanks balanced and yes the chances are very high in reducing algae... the balance though isn't just sorted over a matter of hours.. sometimes it takes weeks.... these weeks taken account for many aspects to why and if algae does have a outbreak.

If you establish a limiting factor from the onset. Usually for me, it'll be light, you can delay or even prevent the onset of any severe algae problems and slow the progession to a level where it becomes much more manageable or even a non-issue during the life of the scape. Most scapes here average 3 months, mine tend to last about 9 months to a year.

I could point you to some of the top aquascaper having had algae problems and these people know what there doing lol.

Like I said, scaping and growing aren't the same thing. One can be a fabulous scaper and not grow plants well and know nothing about the plants being kept. I see so many threads with id my plant please. Why not read about a plant in a book (or on the web) and then go buy it. Why put something in your tank if you don't know what it is?

Not intended to be any sort of argument but i find it very difficult to understand how you think a balanced tank from the offset can be established without any algae making trial and error? (in most cases)... please enlighten me ;)

No arguement at all. It is my pleasure to answer questions. In fact, sometimes I wish the members here would ask me more before they setup their tanks. :) I'm not a guru or anything, but I must be doing something right.

Back to the OP's problems though..

Mark, that tank is filthy, sorry I'm being harsh. Clean it up. That is my advice to you. You gotta get in there and physically clean and remove the algae. You can't just leave it there for it to die. As it dies, decomposition sets in and you're repeating the cycle. Toothbrush makes a good cleaning tool. Then, once the tank is clean, reduce the photoperiod, be agressive with the maintenance, and your current regimen can continue and you add plants. Shifting the dropchecker is a great idea. I've suggested that in other journals. I do this when I initially setup, before adding the plants, and then after again, to make sure everything is going ok. That is, if I'm adding CO2.

I apologize, everybody, you got Liz on a bad day... I'm going back to work now. :rolleyes:

Liz
 
I agree with Liz on this one (not just cos she's a fellow Mod), i'm also a great believer in that scapers and planted tank keepers both fall into different categories. You will struggle to find people who can do both and do them well. We only have a handful in the UK who can do both. I also see bad algae breakouts in some of the scapers around the world and it really worries me that they experience this, we kind of look up to them, some of them really shouldn't be experiencing these outbreaks.

When setting up a tank correctly you shouldn't be experiencing 'good' algae growth, a clean tank is an algae free (very minimal algae) tank. In my new set up the water changes have been 2-3 days, i have noticed over the last couple of day a bit of GSA on the back glass near the intake of the filter. There are very little to no tanks that actually have no algae at all. I can cope with a little GSA, i know why it's there and i can't do anything about it as its right near my Hygro, and if i blast them with extra flow they will be all over the place, so a simple clean of the glass is fine by me. Back to the set-up of a planted tank, keep the plants healthy and well pruned from the beginning and giving them everything they need (this is where a little plant understanding comes in), and you shouldn't experience bad algae break-outs.

I also agree with Liz, when she says about the cleanliness of Marks tank. Personally if that was my tank, and don't take this the wrong way Mark, but i would totally strip it and start again with a clear plan from the start.
 
I haven't had a serious algal outbreak since my first scape, over five years ago. Everything else has fallen under the category of "manageable" or "not worth adressing because it's too small a problem" or simply "not present". And I say it in my journal. Right now, there's some green spot in my ADA, on the glass, but it's like a couple spots only, so who cares?

Yes but an algae you have.... i think what differs here is you know how to adapt to control or combat before it becomes an issue... you would also initially see and mostly know the problems why... again addressing the problem.

Many new people to plants wouldn't initially know these things and then only ask questions to address it when it's out of control.

But yeh i agree a bit of diatoms is never really an issue and usually sorts it self out.


Yes, in fact, I can. Decide on your lighting. Decide on your flow (mine has always been heavy). Decide on your CO2 regimen. Decide on your ferts. Decide on your plantmass. Decide on your photoperiod. THEN setup the tank. Then keep it agressively clean for the first month or two and don't rescape for a period of time after the initial planting. This how I have done things since my first planted tank. I truely apologize if I'm coming across as rude. I don't intend it. I'm just get really frustrated for people who don't do this initially and then have algae problems. Algae takes all the fun and pleasure out of having a planted tank.

Right i apologise because i didn't realise this is the regime system you meant lol.... i was just under the impression you could just set it all up, do you weekly water change and let it be.... yes i agree with the above, aggressively cleaning as you put it is exactly what i do myself.

No, your not coming across rude at all, i agree ... if somebody wants a hassle free, clean algae free tank it means putting the time and effort in to maintaining and make sure it all goes how it should be. I dont like to see dirty tanks and laziness will often be the downfall to problems materialising in the planted aquaria.

Most new tanks suffer from Diatoms due to ammonia build up, regardless of whether it's a planted tank or not. Remove the ammonia source, no diatoms. Buy otos, no diatoms. Sorry, I'm going to come across as a snob, it's not my intention. If experienced scapers are experiencing algae problems, perhaps they are not so experienced. Scaping a tank and growing plants are two different things in my humble opinion.

Again yes i agree, scaping and growing plants are to different things, unfortunately for me i just categorised all together when referring to both.... however i have seen some truly amazing scapes (very well planted and grown) through a journal that started with algae outbreaks here and there. Solving the reasons why solved the algae problem but the algae still appeared at the beginning... this was just my point about alot of tanks can be unstable/unbalanced unintentionally and algae is usually the out come.. even for experienced scapers or plant growers.


If you establish a limiting factor from the onset. Usually for me, it'll be light, you can delay or even prevent the onset of any severe algae problems and slow the progession to a level where it becomes much more manageable or even a non-issue during the life of the scape. Most scapes here average 3 months, mine tend to last about 9 months to a year.

Yep totoally agree with that comment.



No arguement at all. It is my pleasure to answer questions. In fact, sometimes I wish the members here would ask me more before they setup their tanks. :) I'm not a guru or anything, but I must be doing something right.

I put the argument comment in due to my style of replies lol.. sometimes they can seem arrogant and aggressive and it really isn't how i intend to come across lol.... (anger writing management sessions are in order lol :p).

Your tanks usually do look spectacular so yes it appears you do most correctly :). I agree more questions before a problem gets out of hand saves so much hassle and headaches later on when it is a full blown problem.


Mark, that tank is filthy, sorry I'm being harsh. Clean it up. That is my advice to you. You gotta get in there and physically clean and remove the algae. You can't just leave it there for it to die. As it dies, decomposition sets in and you're repeating the cycle. Toothbrush makes a good cleaning tool. Then, once the tank is clean, reduce the photoperiod, be agressive with the maintenance, and your current regimen can continue and you add plants. Shifting the dropchecker is a great idea. I've suggested that in other journals. I do this when I initially setup, before adding the plants, and then after again, to make sure everything is going ok. That is, if I'm adding CO2.

I apologize, everybody, you got Liz on a bad day... I'm going back to work now. :rolleyes:

Liz

I have to agree here, the problems will persist if your not willing to put the time and effort in with maintenance and a good cleaning regime.



I agree with Liz on this one (not just cos she's a fellow Mod)

Yeah yeah Ian i believe you :p lol..... :p
 
I haven't had a serious algal outbreak since my first scape, over five years ago. Everything else has fallen under the category of "manageable" or "not worth adressing because it's too small a problem" or simply "not present". And I say it in my journal. Right now, there's some green spot in my ADA, on the glass, but it's like a couple spots only, so who cares?

Yes but an algae you have.... i think what differs here is you know how to adapt to control or combat before it becomes an issue... you would also initially see and mostly know the problems why... again addressing the problem.

Many new people to plants wouldn't initially know these things and then only ask questions to address it when it's out of control.

And therein lies the problem with many inexperienced hobbiests. They ask questions only when something goes wrong beyond their control, not when they are planning the setup.

I'm pretty satisfied. I've counted 14 scapes that I've done in the past 5 years. I've got a thread in Members that shows most of them. Not a lot because like I said, my scapes tend to last longer than the average here. Out of those 14, only the first had a serious algae problem. That's a pretty good track record. That first tank had BGA and Greenwater (Adopting EI fixed the problems, along with good, diligent maintenance). Newbie mistake because I listened to the LFS owner who said to keep things lean. The irony is that the current scape has roughly the same amount of light and I'm not dosing EI or injecting CO2 at all. Implementing what I've learned about flow and the growth habits of the current group of plants I'm keeping.

I agree with Liz on this one (not just cos she's a fellow Mod)

Yeah yeah Ian i believe you :p lol..... :p

Ian has lovely, pretty algae free tanks too. No reason why Ian shouldn't agree with me. :lol:

Learn how to grow plants first... then learn how to scape. That's my motto.

Liz
 
Ian has lovely, pretty algae free tanks too. No reason why Ian shouldn't agree with me. :lol:

Learn how to grow plants first... then learn how to scape. That's my motto.

Liz

:p...... Ian does have nice tanks and the effort and time put in shows this :good: .


Sounds like im sucking up to mods..... haha, im sure people know that isn't the case lol :p.
 
thanks Jake :wub: I know your not sucking up ;)
 
thanks Jake :wub: I know your not sucking up ;)

Group Hug! :friends: You too, Mark!

Liz


Haha..
1bdeae9a.gif
.....
 

Most reactions

trending

Members online

Back
Top