Witch Filter? Eheim Pro 3 - Fluval Fx5

[T1KARMANN]

the eheim hoses look dirty because they are clear if you chould see in the fluwho hoses who knows what they would look like

 

[CFC]

I supose the biggest factor here is what fish you are keeping, T1karman and myself keep large predatory fish which have protein rich diets and produce huge ammounts of waste, which can sometimes look like a cat or small dog has taken a crap in the tank rather than a fish its this large crap that gets caught in corrugated hoses and blocks them up. In this situation the faster ammonia processing and better media selections are importent, sponges and big fish really dont work well as they just clog continually. Add to this that often these fish are very expensive (T1karmans tank probably has around £20,000 worth of fish in it, maybe more) and suddenly that extra bit of media capacity and faster processing for a couple of hundred quid more seems like a really good deal.

 

[funkyhoney]

I supose the biggest factor here is what fish you are keeping, T1karman and myself keep large predatory fish which have protein rich diets and produce huge ammounts of waste, which can sometimes look like a cat or small dog has taken a crap in the tank rather than a fish its this large crap that gets caught in corrugated hoses and blocks them up. In this situation the faster ammonia processing and better media selections are importent, sponges and big fish really dont work well as they just clog continually. Add to this that often these fish are very expensive (T1karmans tank probably has around £20,000 worth of fish in it, maybe more) and suddenly that extra bit of media capacity and faster processing for a couple of hundred quid more seems like a really good deal.

I agree, it definitely depends on whether you are after large amounts of mechanical or biological filtration in regards to which is more suitable. I personally like a close to 50/50 mix in my filters, but then, I don't keep anything at home that produces large amounts of waste. When it comes to processing large amounts of water with a high concentration of biological waste a sump will offer far greater filtration than any canister. n.b. when I say large I mean anything over say... 1000L (250G).

 

[T1KARMANN]

I supose the biggest factor here is what fish you are keeping, T1karman and myself keep large predatory fish which have protein rich diets and produce huge ammounts of waste, which can sometimes look like a cat or small dog has taken a crap in the tank rather than a fish its this large crap that gets caught in corrugated hoses and blocks them up. In this situation the faster ammonia processing and better media selections are importent, sponges and big fish really dont work well as they just clog continually. Add to this that often these fish are very expensive (T1karmans tank probably has around £20,000 worth of fish in it, maybe more) and suddenly that extra bit of media capacity and faster processing for a couple of hundred quid more seems like a really good deal.

I agree, it definitely depends on whether you are after large amounts of mechanical or biological filtration in regards to which is more suitable. I personally like a close to 50/50 mix in my filters, but then, I don't keep anything at home that produces large amounts of waste. When it comes to processing large amounts of water with a high concentration of biological waste a sump will offer far greater filtration than any canister. n.b. when I say large I mean anything over say... 1000L (250G).

i have 1400l in my tank and i find 2 x 2080s and 2 x 2078s fine and my tank does have alot more large fish than the avarage tank im not sure how much bio media you would get in a sump but i think 42l of bio media is enought

never had a sump so cant coment as i know nothing about them

 

[CFC]

I have a sump on my 3400 litre tank but to be honest if there was a canister filter big enough or even one that could turn over the tank twice an hour so that two could cope i would have preffered them over the sump as the sump is noisy and a pain to clean, but it does give good results and is more efficient with energy use than running 3 or 4 canisters. My sump contains 50kg of alfagrog 40 litres of plastic hose rings (common pond media) three sponge pads and a floss pad and has a 11,500 litre per hour pump running it so any canister would be hard pressed to match it.

 

[Bastables]

Here in the southeast U.S. I have seen the Fluvals and Renas in my nearby stores. I have tried to study the web sites for Fluval, Rena and Eheim. The Rena web material I can find seems a bit short on details and organization. The Fluval material seems pretty well organized with parts diagrams, model information and I get the feeling I could find resources if I were trying to work with one of these. Eheim also has pretty clear model information, although I can't remember whether parts info was quite as clear as Fluval.

Searching for Eheim sources for a U.S. buyer gets a little more confusing. Clearly people are buying them as there are plenty of refs in Amazon and many online tropical hobby sources, BUT, non of these sources ever seems to list a very complete line of units like one sees at the Eheim main company site.

I'm trying to plan a filter for a small 28G(US)/106L tank and the 4 Eheim models that would seem to fit the 5-water-exchanges-per-hour rule I keep seeing here on TFF are the 2215(classic), 2234(ecco), 2222(Pro, aka ProI?) and the 2322(Pro w/heater.) I'm basing this on the (eheim listed) 500 L/H rates (except classic one is 620 L/H.) I have a small worry here that I've seen posts to the effect that the manufacturer-listed rates may be higher than what one really gets.

I'm inclined to just go the whole way and get the 2322 with heater but this is the very one I don't see listed hardly anywhere that would be shipping from U.S. Have any of you Eheim users found a reliable place that can get all the models, accessories and parts, will communicate clearly and perhaps will even talk to you on the phone? Perhaps this model is only available in Germany or something? I wonder if there is a split in their model lines with respect to distribution?

Sorry for so many questions but I thought I might provide temporary relief from you guys bashing each other!
..your humble newbie, -waterdrop-

The pro 1 or pro series may have been discontinued. You would have more luck finding a pro 2 or pro 3.

Eheim manufacture in two places, newer stuff in Germany, older lines in china. Classics, eccos, pick up internal filters are all made in China. Pro 3 and pro 2, aqua balls internals are manufactered in Germany. It looks as if eheim have stopped shipping the pro 1's thermos. to get a thermo eheim you may have to look at the larger PRO 2's ie 2126/2128. I don't know if the pro 1's are made in germany or in china as I have not seen one at the LFS for several months which just tells me they're not even bothering to import them into NZ anymore. (if it's made in germany the box will point it out, china you get a statment designed in germany or "printed in PRC."

parts in the USA are easy www.eheimparts.com only country where you can order eheim parts online from eheim. In NZ you need to get in contact with the store or the local distro chap.

 

[jgray152]

i would also like you to point out what i have over exagerated as well! i have all this as experience with the filter how is that exagerated pray tell??

Sorry I wasn't trying to point that comment directly at you. It was pointed toward the other guy.

 

[waterdrop]

The pro 1 or pro series may have been discontinued. You would have more luck finding a pro 2 or pro 3.

Eheim manufacture in two places, newer stuff in Germany, older lines in china. Classics, eccos, pick up internal filters are all made in China. Pro 3 and pro 2, aqua balls internals are manufactered in Germany. It looks as if eheim have stopped shipping the pro 1's thermos. to get a thermo eheim you may have to look at the larger PRO 2's ie 2126/2128. I don't know if the pro 1's are made in germany or in china as I have not seen one at the LFS for several months which just tells me they're not even bothering to import them into NZ anymore. (if it's made in germany the box will point it out, china you get a statment designed in germany or "printed in PRC."

parts in the USA are easy www.eheimparts.com only country where you can order eheim parts online from eheim. In NZ you need to get in contact with the store or the local distro chap.

A big thankyou to Bastables (& jgray) for taking a minute out for the newbie,

I've thought of writing up "the newbie eheim quest saga" for the hardware forum but it would be supremely boring so I'm trying to resist just to spare everyone the pain...

Today I took my glossy aquarium magazines, turned to the classifieds and proceeded to call each and every fish store with an ad in there in the USA looking for the Eheim 2322 from the Pro-I line. This was a very interesting exercise. It does seem like there is something going on in the distribution pipeline that makes it easier for the retailers to get the classic, ecco and Pro-II lines but not the Pro-I line. To be fair, it also seemed like retailers obviously make reasonable guesses about demand for these filters so they can limit their storage space.

Out of the dozens of phone calls I finally turned up a couple of places to work with and at least one place claims that the Pro-I line really exists in the US with our kind of electrical plugs and everything. I will know more during the coming week.

If the smaller thermofilters like the 2322 just don't exist in America then I'll have to think about the 2126, which, at 950 Liters per Hour and 210W of heating seems way oversized for my 28 us gal (106L) (note: this is where you can jump in and correct me or advise me!)

Boy did I get the full range of fish businesses across the country. There were helpful knowledgeable people, distracted and busy people and to my surprise a fair number of businesses ready to shoot themselves in the foot being short and rude despite a customer being clear and polite! Oh well, it was fun and my notepad is growing.

Since the sun is heading back over to the UK folks, I'm going to sign out. Your newbie friend - waterdrop -

 

[Bastables]

Did none of the stores even offer to get one shipped from eheim America? Odd, Nonethless the pro II is going to be quite an overkill but if you're adament at having a thermo version one the smaller of the pro 2s would do, they do have adjustable flowrate taps and if that's not enough just put the spray bar at the opposite end of the tank and face the holes at the glass. Also if you're everplanning to upgrade you'll already have the filter for it.

Another thing to do would be to try finding a local eheim dealer through the USA webpage www.eheimlocator.com


looking at their German adverts/promotional videos <a href="http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv" target="_blank">http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv</a> you will notice the pro is noticable in it's absence. I don't think Pro I are shipped any more. The video shows the ones now made in China: ecco, classic, and internal pickup. Then it shows the lines made in Germany Pro II, Pro III, and the aquaballs. No pro one. It looks like the line has been discontinued or they're in the process of moving it to china. Either way I can see why none of the stores bothred to ask eheim if they could ship one to the store.

No I'm an idiot there is a small canister in the "made in germany" lineup that looks like a Pro one. This is what happens when you have the flu and trawl the internet. Ask one of the stores to order it in for you. Or Buy a 3e 2076 which can be limited to throw the water around at 350 l/h or 77 g/h and can be brought up in 50l/h increments up to 650l/h (143g/h). But no internal heater.

 

[T1KARMANN]

its no big deal if you can get the pro1 or pro2 they are basically the same filters just the pro2 has a prime function and the pro1 doesnt

pro1 and pro2 both have saame size filters and both have the wet/dry filter

the only way a pro1 will be cheaper than a pro2 is if a shop has one laying around

 

[waterdrop]

Did none of the stores even offer to get one shipped from eheim America? Odd, Nonethless the pro II is going to be quite an overkill but if you're adament at having a thermo version one the smaller of the pro 2s would do, they do have adjustable flowrate taps and if that's not enough just put the spray bar at the opposite end of the tank and face the holes at the glass. Also if you're everplanning to upgrade you'll already have the filter for it.

Another thing to do would be to try finding a local eheim dealer through the USA webpage www.eheimlocator.com


looking at their German adverts/promotional videos <a href="http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv" target="_blank">http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv</a> you will notice the pro is noticable in it's absence. I don't think Pro I are shipped any more. The video shows the ones now made in China: ecco, classic, and internal pickup. Then it shows the lines made in Germany Pro II, Pro III, and the aquaballs. No pro one. It looks like the line has been discontinued or they're in the process of moving it to china. Either way I can see why none of the stores bothred to ask eheim if they could ship one to the store.

No I'm an idiot there is a small canister in the "made in germany" lineup that looks like a Pro one. This is what happens when you have the flu and trawl the internet. Ask one of the stores to order it in for you. Or Buy a 3e 2076 which can be limited to throw the water around at 350 l/h or 77 g/h and can be brought up in 50l/h increments up to 650l/h (143g/h). But no internal heater.

Yes, several of them did offer to order but typically it wasn't a very satisfying interaction, couldn't get price info or much. It's not that I don't know most of the info, I do, I've been collecting minute details for days. Thanks for reminding me about the locator. I had been meaning to use that too but it had slipped my mind. I used it today and located a LFS in a city nearby which I will happen to be visiting in a week or two so now I'm going to stop by. I called them and I may not get the initial filter from them since I found such a good dealer in California but I may need to get parts and other things from this closer store.

I studied the german video in the link and it was very helpful. Really nice to get a feel for the sizes and feel of the things with the guy standing there and using them. Actually your first take may have been right and they may have only shown the smaller Pro2 ones. I'm going to look again. The circle caps on top are gray on the pro1 line and silver on the pro2 line so I need to stare for that when they flash by.

Finally and most important and at the risk of being redundant: I am worried about being under or oversized on the cannister, no doubt much more worried than I should be because I'm so inexperienced (experience limited to HOB units at points 10, 20 and 30 years ago), but worried nontheless because its a hobby and fun to be worried, right?...so...
pro1 model 2322 500L/H w/heater (1st choice but could be slightly under 5 exchanges/hour (for 106L) if I use 75percent rule that 500L/H might be high estimate from eheim)
pro1 model 2324 700L/H w/heater (would just be bigger cannister and more push but theoretically too much filter for this little tank)
pro2 model 2126 950L/H w/heater (actually not much bigger than last one but a few more features and much more readily available out there)
Part of my main inexperience stems from not knowing how hard the water will be blasting out of the spraybar holes, even if pointed at the tank wall and even with the flow rate twisted down. I just can't envision whether the two larger filter pumps would be throwing the sand, plants and fish all around in the 28G/106L. --waterdrop--

 

[T1KARMANN]

Did none of the stores even offer to get one shipped from eheim America? Odd, Nonethless the pro II is going to be quite an overkill but if you're adament at having a thermo version one the smaller of the pro 2s would do, they do have adjustable flowrate taps and if that's not enough just put the spray bar at the opposite end of the tank and face the holes at the glass. Also if you're everplanning to upgrade you'll already have the filter for it.

Another thing to do would be to try finding a local eheim dealer through the USA webpage www.eheimlocator.com


looking at their German adverts/promotional videos <a href="http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv" target="_blank">http/www.eheim.de/eheim/movies/Filtersysteme_D.wmv</a> you will notice the pro is noticable in it's absence. I don't think Pro I are shipped any more. The video shows the ones now made in China: ecco, classic, and internal pickup. Then it shows the lines made in Germany Pro II, Pro III, and the aquaballs. No pro one. It looks like the line has been discontinued or they're in the process of moving it to china. Either way I can see why none of the stores bothred to ask eheim if they could ship one to the store.

No I'm an idiot there is a small canister in the "made in germany" lineup that looks like a Pro one. This is what happens when you have the flu and trawl the internet. Ask one of the stores to order it in for you. Or Buy a 3e 2076 which can be limited to throw the water around at 350 l/h or 77 g/h and can be brought up in 50l/h increments up to 650l/h (143g/h). But no internal heater.

Yes, several of them did offer to order but typically it wasn't a very satisfying interaction, couldn't get price info or much. It's not that I don't know most of the info, I do, I've been collecting minute details for days. Thanks for reminding me about the locator. I had been meaning to use that too but it had slipped my mind. I used it today and located a LFS in a city nearby which I will happen to be visiting in a week or two so now I'm going to stop by. I called them and I may not get the initial filter from them since I found such a good dealer in California but I may need to get parts and other things from this closer store.

I studied the german video in the link and it was very helpful. Really nice to get a feel for the sizes and feel of the things with the guy standing there and using them. Actually your first take may have been right and they may have only shown the smaller Pro2 ones. I'm going to look again. The circle caps on top are gray on the pro1 line and silver on the pro2 line so I need to stare for that when they flash by.

Finally and most important and at the risk of being redundant: I am worried about being under or oversized on the cannister, no doubt much more worried than I should be because I'm so inexperienced (experience limited to HOB units at points 10, 20 and 30 years ago), but worried nontheless because its a hobby and fun to be worried, right?...so...
pro1 model 2322 500L/H w/heater (1st choice but could be slightly under 5 exchanges/hour (for 106L) if I use 75percent rule that 500L/H might be high estimate from eheim)
pro1 model 2324 700L/H w/heater (would just be bigger cannister and more push but theoretically too much filter for this little tank)
pro2 model 2126 950L/H w/heater (actually not much bigger than last one but a few more features and much more readily available out there)
Part of my main inexperience stems from not knowing how hard the water will be blasting out of the spraybar holes, even if pointed at the tank wall and even with the flow rate twisted down. I just can't envision whether the two larger filter pumps would be throwing the sand, plants and fish all around in the 28G/106L. --waterdrop--

the estimated tank size is about right from eheim if you are stocking the tank lightly

you can slow the flow rate down on the pro2

i would just get the smallest pro2 avalible pro1 is not avalible in many shops now and the pro2 will be easyer to get parts for if you need them in 10yrs time

 

[waterdrop]

its no big deal if you can get the pro1 or pro2 they are basically the same filters just the pro2 has a prime function and the pro1 doesnt

pro1 and pro2 both have saame size filters and both have the wet/dry filter

the only way a pro1 will be cheaper than a pro2 is if a shop has one laying around

Thanks T1,
My snippits of info on the "prime" features of the various models has been conflicting. A very enthusiastic store person over the phone said the pro1 units were self-prime. To me this seems unlikely as it is not listed that way at the eheim usa site. The eheim site -does- list the pro2 line as having a self-primer but one can not see evidence of it in the pictures or the little video discussed immediately above in this thread. Then, to top it off, the pro3 clearly has a plastic thumb lever on top and the video has the guy pumping it!

A neophyte like me has -no- idea whether "a self-prime feature" means a wonderful fully automatic electric thing that means you just plug in the power and soon the pump and pipes are all water and no air (llike one would dream of.) Or whether it always means little plastic paddles that one pushes on until one has carpel tunnel syndrome! (insights welcome)

Wet/Dry: The eheim usa site has models 2227/2327 and 2229/2329, all 4 of which are called wet/dry and look radically different with a green cylindrical thing going vertically along the front. Also the plastic at the top of these looks different from the pro2/pro3 ones. Part of my newbie homework was to learn about the superior biofiltering of wet/drys and drip filters and I take these types to be very superior with their better oxygenated and larger colonies, but I also hope I did my homework correctly that that superior bio level will be unneeded in my son's little community tank.

Hey, you made me think of a related question: do wet/dry and drip filters give off more odor than conventional cannister filters in any way?

 

[waterdrop]

well guys, got through to my good store in CA and she definitively confirmed that the pro1 thermofilters have been discontinued, at least for the US and maybe for a wider region that that.

For me that probably means a 2222 with a Hydor inline. From discussion with her that might be a better choice anyway as the freshwater versions of the temp sensors are very sensitive to any salt and adding salt for any reason will void the warr.

At least I made progress today.

-waterdrop

 

[Bastables]

A neophyte like me has -no- idea whether "a self-prime feature" means a wonderful fully automatic electric thing that means you just plug in the power and soon the pump and pipes are all water and no air (llike one would dream of.) Or whether it always means little plastic paddles that one pushes on until one has carpel tunnel syndrome! (insights welcome)

Pretty much "self priming" means you push a button which sucks water down into the canister and fills it up. You then plug in the canister filter and the motor does the rest. most canisters there will be air pockets which you have to get rid of by shaking or leaning from side to side the canister. Priming means you suck on the out put until gravity fills the canister. So yeah plastic paddles

I know nothing about the wetdrys
and have never used one so cannot comment at all about them.