White Stuff On The Mouth Of Convicts...update...its On My Electric Yel

[electric yellow]

Hi everyone,

My convicts recently nested and had fry. Ive noticed though that there is something white on their mouth. They are both pretty run down from constant fry watching and guarding so im hoping it is just a result of that. It doesnt look fuzzy or anything but its noticeable.

Any ideas what it could be? I would prefer to try to not treat the whole tank as i want to try to keep some fry when they finally venture out of their pot....im hoping its just them being run down. They are eating fine and seem ok.

Some pics of the mum and dad with the weird mouth spot...

This photo you can really see it on the male...

ph 7.6
ammonia 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
nitrite 0-1pppm

Sand subtrate and lots of decor for hiding and silk plants.

 

[WILDER]

White mouths can be columnaris.
It can look fluffy, strands of cotton coming from the mouth, or bleached out white mouths.

 

[Colin_T]

It looks like physical damage, probably caused by fighting or brood care. Monitor it for a few days and see how it goes. If it starts to spread and cover the mouth and up over the face and head, then treat them for Columnaris straight away. But if it doesn't get worse then leave them be and it should heal up by itself.
A bit of Melafix might help prevent secondary infection if it is minor and shouldn't cause any problems to the fry.

 

[electric yellow]

I looked at my old electric yellow today and he has white stuff on his face! His isnt on the lips....it is around his face. He is nearlly three years old so i dont want to lose him! He is the largest and most majestic fish in my tank. Hes huge.

I thought it was just battle wounds but now i think its more. I will try to get a photo of him, all though he is bright yellow you can kind of see it. Its like a slight patchy covering. I am not fussed about keeping these fry now...i want to save my adults fishies!

Ive got large bottles of melafix and pimafix in my cupboard so tonight i will dose them for the required 7days. Is there anything else i need to use to get rid of it toally? I found out its better for me to dose with this stuff at night because the lighting in the tank turns the water murky when i sue it and when its dark it keeps the water quality clear. They get there 30% water change weekly so i dont know what could of caused this.

 

[Colin_T]

try doing a partial (30-50%) water change and gravel clean the tank each day for a week, before adding the Melafix. Problems like mouth fungus (Columnaris) are often associated with dirty environmental conditions (dirty gravel and filter). But if it gets worse then treat with an anti-bacterial medication.

 

[Kivstev]

try doing a partial (30-50%) water change and gravel clean the tank each day for a week, before adding the Melafix. Problems like mouth fungus (Columnaris) are often associated with dirty environmental conditions (dirty gravel and filter). But if it gets worse then treat with an anti-bacterial medication.

Looks like Columnaris. Just had a new Rainbow fish that died of Flexibacter (columnaris). He was fine, got stressed on the way home from the fish store, and developed the cotton mouth. He was dead 24 hour later. DO NOT HEAT THE TANK as Flexibacter likes high temps. 74F degs is a good temp. Treat with Kanamycyn if you can find it ASAP. If it is Flex you need to treat it fast! You should probably treat the whole tank as well. I've been researching this bacteria for 3 days and it is some serious business.

Here are a couple links:

Flexibacter
Another

 

[Athena]

All good advice from the others. As you said in your PM, make it your priority to get the adult fish better - if some fry survive all well and good - but if not don't worry (Oh, I know you'll be sad) because the parents will spawn again. Main thing is to get them all better asap.

Usually when fry are present, it's common to half-dose - but because this seems to be spreading quickly, I would do normal dosage and risk losing this batch of fry for the sake of the adults.

Good luck and let us know how things go...

Athena

 

[electric yellow]

Its covered my electric yellows face in a different way to the convicts. The electric yellows is more a covering of....fuzzy...white fuzz. Patchy. While nto entirely over his face its noticeable....

It shouldnt be from bad water quality as their tank was thoroughly cleaned two weeks ago with a 40% water change. I cleaned their filter about a month ago its generally pretty good. The only difference to the tank recently is the addition of a batch of fry from our convicts and some aggression by my johannies..

My tank is a deep tank so its around 170ltrs. Ive added 20mls of melafix and pimafix which is meant to treat fungal infections, cottony growth, mouth and body fungus, tail or fin rot and redness of body. It says 5ml for every 40ltrs. Ive also increased airation in the tank a bit.

 

[Athena]

This has probably been brought on by the high levels of stress they've been under recently. Not only does it affect the spawning pair but due to their increased aggression at this time, other fish in the tank will be feeling stressed too.

The same as in humans - we don't have to be in a dirty room full of germs to get sick - high levels of stress can bring out illness in us as it lowers the immune system and the body reacts to it. Stress in us can cause headaches, ulcers, skin rashes and boils, breathing difficulties, cancers etc - and fish can get illnesses in the same way.

Don't worry - I'm sure this hasn't been caused by lack of tank maintenance on your part cos you love your fish too much! It's just one of those things that can happen in the best of tanks.

Unfortunately, there is always the chance of this happening in a cichlid tank because they do become so highly strung at spawning time - not just towards other fish in the tank but even with each other. If the female thinks her male isn't being protective enough she will go on a rant and you'll see them both sparring and she'll be headbutting him into action! Or if he sees her leaving the nest he'll be chasing and nipping her to get back to the eggs/fry... it can get really crazy at times in there!

Gosh, I get stressed sometimes just watching them getting stressed!

Phew! And we thought keeping fish was a nice, relaxing hobby LOL

Oh yes - one last thing. This is to do with dosing medication. You know when you say your tank is 170 litres - well, don't forget that if you have lots of rocks/ornaments/wood etc in the tank this will lessen the actual water volume your tank can hold. So if you do have a lot you might want to bear that in mind when working out how much to dose.

I suppose you could do a one off test and remove all the larger pieces in the tank to see where the water line drops to and then deduct that percentage off your current tank volume amount. You might find it's 10/15/20% less than you think.

It's always best to be as accurate as you can with meds as overdosing can also have a detrimental affect on the fish.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Take care - Athena

 

[Colin_T]

Just had a new Rainbow fish that died of Flexibacter (columnaris). He was fine, got stressed on the way home from the fish store, and developed the cotton mouth. He was dead 24 hour later.

Rainbowfish have very soft mouths and often damage them when being caught and bagged up, or when introduced into a new tank and swim into things (ornaments or the glass). The lips go white and a bit inflamed, but it doesn't spread like Columnaris. They also stress out quite badly and if handled roughly, (ie: chased around the tank when being caught, or kept in dirty water) will sometimes die within a few hours of going into a new tank.
Now I'm not saying your rainbowfish didn't have Columnaris, just that rainbows can develop the white lips (reminiscent of Columnaris) and it is simply bruising that heals up after a few weeks. Combine this with stress from handling and shipping to a new tank, and it might have been too much for the fish.

---------------------------------------------------------
For Electric Yellow

Athena made a good point about treating tanks with large ornaments in.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water.

Tanks can still get dirty even if they are water changed every 2 weeks. Cichlids can be messy fish and if you are adding a fry food that could make the water go off a little quicker than normal.

If you have Melanochromis johanni, Labidochromis caeruleus (electric yellows) and convicts in the same tank, then it could well be caused by fighting. The convicts would be fighting off everyone to protect their fry and having other cichlids in the tank, would be pushing their buttons and stressing them out.

 

[Kivstev]

Yes I agree. However, this spread very fast and you could see the disease spread from the outside of the mouth, to the inside of the mouth, and then to the nose and to the top of the head within hours. The 'cotton-like' strings coming from the inside of the mouth was the definitive giveaway.

Hopefully Electic Yellow's fish do not have this.

Just had a new Rainbow fish that died of Flexibacter (columnaris). He was fine, got stressed on the way home from the fish store, and developed the cotton mouth. He was dead 24 hour later.

Rainbowfish have very soft mouths and often damage them when being caught and bagged up, or when introduced into a new tank and swim into things (ornaments or the glass). The lips go white and a bit inflamed, but it doesn't spread like Columnaris. They also stress out quite badly and if handled roughly, (ie: chased around the tank when being caught, or kept in dirty water) will sometimes die within a few hours of going into a new tank.
Now I'm not saying your rainbowfish didn't have Columnaris, just that rainbows can develop the white lips (reminiscent of Columnaris) and it is simply bruising that heals up after a few weeks. Combine this with stress from handling and shipping to a new tank, and it might have been too much for the fish.

 

[Colin_T]

if it spread over the nose and up onto the head then it wasn't bruising. The rainbowfish would have had Columnaris when you bought it from the shop. Bad petshop

 

[electric yellow]

Cichlids can be messy fish and if you are adding a fry food that could make the water go off a little quicker than normal.

If you have Melanochromis johanni, Labidochromis caeruleus (electric yellows) and convicts in the same tank, then it could well be caused by fighting. The convicts would be fighting off everyone to protect their fry and having other cichlids in the tank, would be pushing their buttons and stressing them out.

I hear ya on that....and they love throwing the sand around!!! I will lower the dosage tonight to allow for the ship wreck etc. Its a deep tank which is good because there are a few that dwell around the top of the tank and some that love the bottom. I will check them tmw morning and see what is going on.

 

[destinyxrose]

Its covered my electric yellows face in a different way to the convicts. The electric yellows is more a covering of....fuzzy...white fuzz. Patchy. While nto entirely over his face its noticeable....

It shouldnt be from bad water quality as their tank was thoroughly cleaned two weeks ago with a 40% water change. I cleaned their filter about a month ago its generally pretty good. The only difference to the tank recently is the addition of a batch of fry from our convicts and some aggression by my johannies..

My tank is a deep tank so its around 170ltrs. Ive added 20mls of melafix and pimafix which is meant to treat fungal infections, cottony growth, mouth and body fungus, tail or fin rot and redness of body. It says 5ml for every 40ltrs. Ive also increased airation in the tank a bit.

Hey, I am pretty new in this forum but one of my past fish had flexibacter (Columnaris) and I treated him with pimafix and melafix and he still passed. Flexibacter can attack fast and kill a fish very quickly as well. I am not saying that melafix and pimafix won't work but if you don't see any signs of improvement I would try Maracyn. Melafix and pimafix are all natural which is great, I'd never want to medicate a fish if it's not needed, but since it is natural it's usually a slower healing process. So I am not saying go out and get maracyn right now, because like I said I am new to all this and I am not a genius, but if you don't see signs of improvement or they get worse, consider that as well. Also, Maracyn has many different types and has a diagnosis guide if you don't feel it is flexibacter (though it does sound like it). If what you are doing is working then keep doing it. The natural meds are always better if you can do it that way. Good Luck I hope Everything works out.

 

[destinyxrose]

Also, when I found out my fish had flexibacter, WILDER sent me this link and it was very informative. It was too late for me but it can give you all the information on it so you can better diagnose and treat it. So here's the site. Check it out.
http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm