Where Does The Bacteria Come From?
- Thread starter The chilly dipper
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The chilly dipper
Fish Crazy
Its a good job you didnt looolthe_lock_man said:
i have moreon this soon !
Good job I didn't hold my breath waiting!!!!!!
Thanks for your input on this i welcome anyone to add to this.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
That is an interesting question raptor. But you might also ask that very same one about similar bacteria in different geographical locations.
The answer to the question is most likely, no they dont. But that can be misleading. Even in laboratory settings, it is extremely difficult to isolate bacteria to work with a single strain. In nature bacteria do not live this way. They are all mixed up. Moreover, environment plays a role. Even limiting the discussion to just the autrophic nitrifiers this can be still be difficult to resolve.
If you start to read enough of the literature you begin to see statement/terms like most closely related to Nitrosomas Europa or similar to. One sees discussions of how multiple types of bacteria cohabit and then, based on conditions, the ones which will be dominant will depend on the level of ammonia. So what we know is that there must be nitrifiers in tanks or they would not cycle. However, are the bacteria in the tanks in Japan vs those in London vs those in Chicago all the virtually identical? I really doubt it. Are the very similar? Likely yes.
Bacteria seem to be able to adapt to their situation. This is most obvious when we see how, under the proper conditions, bacteria can oxidize at a pH of 4.0. How do they do this? They adapt and process NH4 instead of NH3. It may be less efficient, but it is still oxidation. And it is pretty much the same bacteria that do it at higher pH levels.
On the other hand, the strains of nitrifying bacteria that end up in tanks will have mostly originated from drinking water systems. Because of the nature of what this entails, these are bacteria most suited to the ammonia levels in aquariums. Drinking water does not contain massive amounts of ammonia like waste water treatment facilities can and do. However, research shows that even these facilities contain a variety of nitrifyers, including the Archaea. One type dominates under certain conditions and another dominate at other conditions- it is all based on ammonia and oxygen levels. The biggest difference I have seen is that in the high ammonia environments there is usually still some level of bacteria/archaea that thrive at low ammonia levels still present in these high ammonia environments. But, in the low level systems, like aquariums, the bacteria that thrive at the highest ammonia levels may not be present at all.
I believe that for a strain of bacteria to be considered similar or not that the number used is in the high 90%s. So if if there are two almost identical strains in tanks on opposite sides of the globe- differing by a couple of percent is all it can take to change the label from being X to being X-like to being something not X.
But lets look at this from a different persepective, one a bit less scientific and more anecdotal. I have kept multiple tanks for many years. Many have the same substrate and similar decor and even some fish in common. They have similar plants. lights and get similar additives and maint. routines. Yet one tank thrives and plants grow like weeds while the other tank doesn't do so well. Clearly despite all the similarities, the biology and chemistry of the two tanks is not identical. If it is that easy to get two tanks side by side to be different, how hard is it for the exact strains of nitrifying bacteria to differ in two fw tanks on opposite sides of the globe?
If my nitrosomanas and yours differ by a few % and both do the same job the same way, I think the more interesting question is, does it matter that they are not 100% identical?
The answer to the question is most likely, no they dont. But that can be misleading. Even in laboratory settings, it is extremely difficult to isolate bacteria to work with a single strain. In nature bacteria do not live this way. They are all mixed up. Moreover, environment plays a role. Even limiting the discussion to just the autrophic nitrifiers this can be still be difficult to resolve.
If you start to read enough of the literature you begin to see statement/terms like most closely related to Nitrosomas Europa or similar to. One sees discussions of how multiple types of bacteria cohabit and then, based on conditions, the ones which will be dominant will depend on the level of ammonia. So what we know is that there must be nitrifiers in tanks or they would not cycle. However, are the bacteria in the tanks in Japan vs those in London vs those in Chicago all the virtually identical? I really doubt it. Are the very similar? Likely yes.
Bacteria seem to be able to adapt to their situation. This is most obvious when we see how, under the proper conditions, bacteria can oxidize at a pH of 4.0. How do they do this? They adapt and process NH4 instead of NH3. It may be less efficient, but it is still oxidation. And it is pretty much the same bacteria that do it at higher pH levels.
On the other hand, the strains of nitrifying bacteria that end up in tanks will have mostly originated from drinking water systems. Because of the nature of what this entails, these are bacteria most suited to the ammonia levels in aquariums. Drinking water does not contain massive amounts of ammonia like waste water treatment facilities can and do. However, research shows that even these facilities contain a variety of nitrifyers, including the Archaea. One type dominates under certain conditions and another dominate at other conditions- it is all based on ammonia and oxygen levels. The biggest difference I have seen is that in the high ammonia environments there is usually still some level of bacteria/archaea that thrive at low ammonia levels still present in these high ammonia environments. But, in the low level systems, like aquariums, the bacteria that thrive at the highest ammonia levels may not be present at all.
I believe that for a strain of bacteria to be considered similar or not that the number used is in the high 90%s. So if if there are two almost identical strains in tanks on opposite sides of the globe- differing by a couple of percent is all it can take to change the label from being X to being X-like to being something not X.
But lets look at this from a different persepective, one a bit less scientific and more anecdotal. I have kept multiple tanks for many years. Many have the same substrate and similar decor and even some fish in common. They have similar plants. lights and get similar additives and maint. routines. Yet one tank thrives and plants grow like weeds while the other tank doesn't do so well. Clearly despite all the similarities, the biology and chemistry of the two tanks is not identical. If it is that easy to get two tanks side by side to be different, how hard is it for the exact strains of nitrifying bacteria to differ in two fw tanks on opposite sides of the globe?
If my nitrosomanas and yours differ by a few % and both do the same job the same way, I think the more interesting question is, does it matter that they are not 100% identical?
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