When To Expect My Nitrite Or Nitrate Spike?

[watertown28]

So yes, got into the fish hobby ( thanks to my kids both who are autistic...figured it would be relaxing for them )... anyways....

So I have a 10 gallon tank with all the goodies... filter, heater ( which the water is currently at 74F ) and 2 Neon tetras in there. I also have 5 plant bulbs, one of which looks like its finally sprouting ( YEAH!!).

Its been about 4 days now sense the start up.

I have been using the Jungle Ammonia test kit to test of course the ammonia levels. Yesterday morning I was alarmed by a reading on it with a 3.0-6.0 range. I quickly did a 15% water change ( using bottled drinking water... not distilled ) Re tested and it fell under the 3.0 range to .5-3.0. Retested it again this morning just now, still was at the .5 reading and did another 15% water change. I will retest shotly once the water gets worked though the tank.


With that said, it is obvious I am getting ammonia now in the tank. The one thing I have noticed is that I have not gotten the climb in the Nitrate or the Nitrite readings yet. They are flat line . I am using the Jungle 5 in 1 test strips for that....

The hardness of the water of course has come down to mid range due to me using the drinking water... though the Alkalinity is off the charts still along with the pH being well into the 8's.. ( which I wont mess around with anyways. ) I Used tap water to fill the tank at first, conditioned it too for the start up.

So with that said, am I doing something wrong here? I thought I should have seen the spike by now or am I just getting worked up for nothing. Also, when the spike does happen... what do I do to control it?

 

[JL94x4]

Test strips are not reliable, get some drop test kits.

 

[fluttermoth]

to the forum, watertown.

I'm afraid you need to be doing much, much larger water changes than 10 or 15% if your ammonia is that high. Ammonia causes long term health problems, and even death at any level above about 0.25ppm.

Star by draining the tank down so the fish have just enough water to swim upright, and then refill with temperature matched, dechlorinated water. I'd use tap water, unless there's a very good reason not to. Retest after a couple of hours and see how things look then.

Four days is no time at all for a cycle; you probably won't see any spikes or reduction in ammonia/nitrites for a few weeks yet, and you must keep up the water changes, probably daily (one of the reasons we recommend fishless cycles; a lot less hard work!).

I feel I should warn you that neons generally don't do well in new tanks, even if they've been fully cycled before adding fish, so you may well lose them. They're not really suitable for hard, alkaline water either. To be honest, I'd see if you can return them to the shop and do a fishless cycle.

I know it might be difficult to explain this to your kids, but it would really be for the best.

 

[watertown28]

@ JL94x4... what do you recommend then for the testing? I do not have unlimited funds ( sadly ) so being cost effective is needed... dont get me wrong, I can spend some money... but I can not afford the best of the best... just something to keep in mind when you make your recommendations

@fluttermoth... I know fishless is the way to go, but you need to understand my kids. I have a second 10 gallon tank that was givin to me by a co worker... and I have to repeatedly remind them that we need to get the first one running first before we work on another one. The 2 fish in there now dont seem to be stressed that much. One for awhile there before the first water change seemed to be ( sticking in one spot and not going with his/her buddy) but after the first water change they been pairing up and going around in the tank just fine.

I skipped the feeding last night due to the high levels of ammonia. I will for now skip the tap water and instead get the drinking water. For that I will be using walmart gallons or ice mountain.... depending on if I get to walmart or to the store next to my house. Either way, I just dont feel compy right now using tap due to the fear of killing whatever bacteria I have growing in there, even with the stabilizer heh. Plus that should help bring down the hardness and the alkaline down. I have tested both waters with the strips and they both fell within the acceptable levels... but I did not do a whole change right off figuring that that would shock the fish too much...cuz they are already a bit stressed.

I would like to say though I made the common newbie mistake though... that was with bettas... you fall for the cute little tanks thinking you only need 1/4 gallon of water with not filter... needless to say I have had to settle for a 1 gallon tank for now with a small filter... looking to get a 5 gallon tank if I can find one a bit cheaper ( 50 bucks for one is a bit too much for me... I already have the filter for up to 5 gallons and the heater too boot for it... just need a dang lid/light and the tank LOL )

 

[fluttermoth]

Any liquid based test kit will do; as you already have one for ammonia, you really only need a nitrite one. You'll really need to be testing for both of those daily.

I do understand how difficult it must be to explain things to your kids!

Tap water won't harm your bacteria, as long as you use a dechlorinator. It would be much better in the long run to use dechlorinated tap water, rather than bottled, especially as you'll be having to do a lot of water changes in the next few weeks!

Perhaps you could swap the neons for something more suited to your water? Most barbs or livebearers would do much better (although you must be aware that fish-in cycles are not good for any fish; ammonia will affect them all the same way)

I understand that you're reluctant to do large scale water changes, but you really do need to get those readings for ammonia down. Multiple or large water changes, while perhaps slightly stressful to the fish, is far preferable to having the fish swimming in water that's high in ammonia.

Every second the fish are in that water, it will be damaging their gills and reducing their ability to absorb oxygen, and once the damage is done it is irreversible.

Hope that helps

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Watertown28.
You are only doing 2 things wrong. You are being very impatient in terms of how long a cycle takes and you are not changing enough water. The first improvement of ammonia and build of nitrites will likely take 2 weeks or more so patience is needed. When water quality is poor, a 15% water change has almost no benefit. I use a 90% change whenever I have water quality problems and the fish are visibly improved by it. Please avoid using bottled drinking water. Even drinking water is very close to distilled water in terms of mineral content. It is often made using RO water with a trace of salts added back in to improve flavor. Each water vendor has their own mix of flavoring salts but the water itself is almost pure demineralized water. When I worked in a lab testing water, I was quite surprised at how pure drinking water from a 5 gallon water cooler jug actually was.

 

[watertown28]

Alright what I will try to do it do a change of at least 5 gallons at a time. The issue I will have is how to measure out the water treatment for chlorine . I only have a way to add a gallon at a time, so the only measurement I see is for either 5 or 10 gallons on the bottle of treatment stuff for it.

If you guys could help on how much to add per 1 gallon that would help tons!


I did get a pH and ammonia test dropper kit at petco today. I was looking for the master kit, and of course... they did NOT have it and told me it would take 2+ weeks to get it in. I Laughed at the guy. What even made me more sick was I was looking at the selection of fish... and not only did many tanks have at least one dead fish in it, there were many that had ICK in them... and bad. I was stunned on how poor of quality the fish were there....

With that in mind, I will now for sure have to set up a quarantine tank for the new fish I ever get. I know its said to be the very best option before introducing new fish into and established tank... after seeing that, I am scared to even entertain any thought on buying any fish from a pet store.


O and the tettras are doing okay still... they do seem a bit nippy today though

 

[gregswimm]

Alright what I will try to do it do a change of at least 5 gallons at a time. The issue I will have is how to measure out the water treatment for chlorine . I only have a way to add a gallon at a time, so the only measurement I see is for either 5 or 10 gallons on the bottle of treatment stuff for it.

If you guys could help on how much to add per 1 gallon that would help tons!


I did get a pH and ammonia test dropper kit at petco today. I was looking for the master kit, and of course... they did NOT have it and told me it would take 2+ weeks to get it in. I Laughed at the guy. What even made me more sick was I was looking at the selection of fish... and not only did many tanks have at least one dead fish in it, there were many that had ICK in them... and bad. I was stunned on how poor of quality the fish were there....

With that in mind, I will now for sure have to set up a quarantine tank for the new fish I ever get. I know its said to be the very best option before introducing new fish into and established tank... after seeing that, I am scared to even entertain any thought on buying any fish from a pet store.


O and the tettras are doing okay still... they do seem a bit nippy today though

I generally don't even measure my dechlorinator i just squirt some in there(about 5 drops or so for a gallon). API makes a good ammonia test, which is really all you need for basic fish keeping (i got mine for about $6). And I wouldn't buy fish from that store, the ick can stay stuck in their system for a while; I doubt that they would medicate the tanks as they get the fish quite cheep wholesale. Neon tetras can be quite sensitive to water quality, also once you get your ammo under control i would consider adding a few more neons (about 6 in total), they do alot better in groups. Adding some elodea to your tank can help your water quality and give your neons a place to hide . Just remember with live plants to remove the dead mater as it can create ammonia.

Edit: try lowering your temp to 75ish it will help your fish tolerate the ammonia a little better.

 

[watertown28]

[/quote]


I generally don't even measure my dechlorinator i just squirt some in there(about 5 drops or so for a gallon). API makes a good ammonia test, which is really all you need for basic fish keeping (i got mine for about $6). And I wouldn't buy fish from that store, the ick can stay stuck in their system for a while; I doubt that they would medicate the tanks as they get the fish quite cheep wholesale. Neon tetras can be quite sensitive to water quality, also once you get your ammo under control i would consider adding a few more neons (about 6 in total), they do alot better in groups. Adding some elodea to your tank can help your water quality and give your neons a place to hide . Just remember with live plants to remove the dead mater as it can create ammonia.

Edit: try lowering your temp to 75ish it will help your fish tolerate the ammonia a little better.
[/quote]
The temp is around 72F atm in that tank. I took advice, believe it or not, and did a 5 gallon change. I added .6mL of the treatment to each gallon of water.... I guess being a bit over is not going to hurt them for it states on the bottle you can add it to the water if the fish shows fin damage and stuff like that.

I do plan in getting 4 more of the neon once the tank has stabilized.... in a bit I will be doing another ammonia test on the tank to see if it helped at all. The test tube was showing a .25 reading before the change.

 

[gregswimm]

I do plan in getting 4 more of the neon once the tank has stabilized.... in a bit I will be doing another ammonia test on the tank to see if it helped at all. The test tube was showing a .25 reading before the change.

.25 isn't that high at all. Check out my ammonia toxicity link in my signature.

 

[watertown28]

I do plan in getting 4 more of the neon once the tank has stabilized.... in a bit I will be doing another ammonia test on the tank to see if it helped at all. The test tube was showing a .25 reading before the change.

.25 isn't that high at all. Check out my ammonia toxicity link in my signature.

so wait because my pH is so high is the reason why I am having a hard time dropping the ammonia? My pH is off the charts and the tank temp is 72F... so that in turns makes the ammonia much more toxic?

 

[gregswimm]

I do plan in getting 4 more of the neon once the tank has stabilized.... in a bit I will be doing another ammonia test on the tank to see if it helped at all. The test tube was showing a .25 reading before the change.

.25 isn't that high at all. Check out my ammonia toxicity link in my signature.

so wait because my pH is so high is the reason why I am having a hard time dropping the ammonia? My pH is off the charts and the tank temp is 72F... so that in turns makes the ammonia much more toxic?

The temp and ph don't determine the amount of ammonia, they determine it's toxicity. The lower the temp and ph the less toxic it will be.

 

[OldMan47]

If you use Prime as your dechlorinator, use a drop to 2 drops per gallon. I use 6 drops in 4 gallons of water. If you use other dechlorinators, most of them are less concentrated and you must add more dechlorinator per gallon. If you figure a teaspoon is 5ml, you can get a quick ratio to know how many ml you need. One ml droppers can be had for free or almost free at drug stores. They give them away for people dosing kids with medicines.

 

[watertown28]

If you use Prime as your dechlorinator, use a drop to 2 drops per gallon. I use 6 drops in 4 gallons of water. If you use other dechlorinators, most of them are less concentrated and you must add more dechlorinator per gallon. If you figure a teaspoon is 5ml, you can get a quick ratio to know how many ml you need. One ml droppers can be had for free or almost free at drug stores. They give them away for people dosing kids with medicines.

Thats what I have been using. It called for 5 mL per 10 gallons so I put what is .6mL in each gallon jug. Nothing has died yet!


O and I have moved my betta to a new 3 gallon tank. Let me tell you, he sure seems to like the added space. Now I can actually use the heater I have for him.

 

[watertown28]

Well no fishy dead yet! Another water change. They look alright and no sickness from what I can tell. Though they look hungry. I been rationing food for them to every other day. I might feed them two days in a row tonight we will see.

I have another fun question but I will save that for another thread!