Water Cycled?

[Squid31]

Hello everyone, I've had a 40 gallon tank running for 3 weeks now, when I first had it up and going I had live plants in it, driftwood, and some rocks, with gravel bed. I put conditioner in it and let the filter run. After 2 weeks (Last Sunday) I tested it with strips (amateur) it read good. So I went to petco and bought 5 tiger barbs. When I got home I decided to take the live plants out, didn't want to have to care for plants also being new to this so I replaced them with fake plants, and kept the driftwood in there with some lava rock. I put the tiger into the aquarium after adding water to the bag and having them adjust. They seemed fine and healthy and adjusted to the tank. So seeing that I went to petco again yesterday Thursday (4 days since first adding barbs), bought 3 green tiger barbs and a Red Tailed Shark. I also bought a few more hiding places. I placed the new décor and added the fish slowy, adding the conditioner and ammonia removal after adding. Today they all seem fine the sharks color is back after the move and the barbs are all playing, even the shark a bit defending new territories. I also bought an API freshwater master test kit... I tested the water today with these results Ph is just above 7, Hard Ph is low around 7 id say lower than any chart reading, my ammonia seemed to be at .25 along with the nitrites, and my nitrates seem to be at only 2.5ppms. Does that mean the tank is just starting the cycle now? The fish all seem healthy, but I don't want this to be the cycle starting and possibly killing them all. I thought the live plants would have started the cycle with the ammonia they release. I have not did a water change since the original water, or replace the filter cartridge in my tetra 45 yet either, and the time strip is a bit over half way colored. I would like any advice on if the water is cycled or what I should do to cycle it with the fish in there since I have no where to put them, and anything else you guys might want to add. Any help would be appreciated! 
 
Thanks Everyone!!!

 

[toshapetriji]

I would say you are just starting to cycle your filter. Keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrite readings and change as much water as necessary in order to keep both those readings at zero.
 
You may find yourself needing to change very large quantities of water, so dont be tempted to add any more fish until cycling is complete.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Squid you are at the beginning. You have a small window of time to decide what to do. You have several options.
 
The only safe way you can keep that number of fish safely in the tank from here on is to be able to afford and to find either Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria or Tetra's Safe Start and use them right away. You need to be safe, so get more than is suggested. Alternatively you can try to locate other fish keepers nearby willing to share cycled media with you, but you need a fair amount and this will require more than one source I fear.
 
The next best option to buy more time is to get some or even all of the fish out of the tank. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is a solution. The store may take back the most recent purchases, maybe the initial ones as well, especially if all you ask for is store credit. Local fish keepers may also be willing to help by housing your fish while you get the tank cycled.
 
You can also try getting through this using chemicals to neutralize things. But it gets costly, is a lot of work and not a guarantee of success. Lots of Prime by SeaChem or Amquel+ by Kordon can help.
 
Finally, there is the leave things as is and do lots of water changes route. This mean much more testing, will stress you and your fish and will take a long time and a lot of work. It also does not guarantee no fish will die or be harmed.
 
Lastly- live plants eat ammonia, taking them out is not a help here.
 
Where in the states are you? If you are near me I can help you fast as I happen to have 5 well cycled smaller filters in my bio-farm-3 100 gph hang-ons and 2 Poret foams (air powered). But it being Friday, shipping isn't a realistic help.

 

[Squid31]

Okay thank you, and how long will the cycle take at this point? Im guessing if it just started 4 weeks around? and Should I change my cartridge at any point while cycling, and should it stay on for the whole process? Sorry for all the questions I just want to do it right lol. I do have a heater going to at 76 degrees F. 

Squid you are at the beginning. You have a small window of time to decide what to do. You have several options.
 
The only way you can keep that number of fish in the tank is to be able to afford and to find either Dr Tim's one And Only Nitrifying Bacteria or Tetra's Safe Start and use them right away. You need to be safe, so get more than is suggested. Alternatively you can try to locate other fish keepers nearby willing to share cycled media with you, but you need a fair amount and this will require more than one source I fear.
 
The next best option to buy more time is to get some or even all of the fish out of the tank. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is a solution. The store may take back the most recent purchases, maybe the initial ones as well, especially if all you ask for is store credit. Local fish keepers may also be willing to help by housing your fish while you get the tank cycled.
 
You can also try getting through this using chemicals to neutralize things. But it gets costly, is a lot of work and not a guarantee of success. Lots of Prime by SeaChem or Amquel+ by Kordon can help.
 
Finally, there is the leave things as is and do lots of water changes route. This mean much more testing, will stress you and your fish and will take a long time and a lot of work. It also does not guarantee no fish will die or be harmed.
 
Lastly- live plants eat ammonia, taking them out is not a help here.
 
Where in the states are you? If you are near me I can help you fast as I happen to have 5 well cycled smaller filters in my bio-farm-3 100 gph hang-ons and 2 Poret foams (air powered). But it being Friday, shipping isn't a realistic help.

I'm in New Jersey, and yea that does hurt to hear a bit, I don't have anyone off hand that has a tank for them, Ill go look for Tetras safe start now. I will check water daily and do water changes when I need to. Is the tetra safe start located in Petco or Petsmart?
Petco has it so Im off to spend some money lol. Thank you both so much for the help I really appreciate it, and so do the fish!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

When you get back i hope you come here first. Please do a water change before you add it to the tank. 30-50%. This is just a precaution to insure there is neither enough ammonia nor nitrite in the tank to zap the bacteria when they hit the water. It will also insure a more stable ph and KH. It will also buy time for the bacteria to settle onto solid surfaces. Yes leave the filters on.
 
Shake the bottle before adding and also turn off the tank lights and leave them off until tomorrow.
 
Continue to test. But after adding the bacteria you need to try not having to change water for 24 or more.
 
I am about 35 minutes from the NY side of the GW Bridge and maybe 25 from the NY side of the Tappan Zee.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid fish-in cycles can take six to eight weeks, maybe even longer

Do not change the cartridges, even when you've finished cycling, as if you do, you'll lose all the good bacteria you've worked so hard to grow, unless (and this is very important!) they're a chemical media. If they are then you need to change them out now for normal sponges or ceramic rings or other biological media.

The manufacturers only want you to replace the cartridges to get more money off you

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I define a cycle as being complete when the tank is fully stocked according to plan and able to handle that load. It takes about 5-6 weeks to complete the initial step of a fishless cycle. It takes another few months to get to the desired end in most cases.
 
A fishless cycle takes 5-6 weeks to get one to stocked fully.

 

[Squid31]

When you get back i hope you come here first. Please do a water change before you add it to the tank. 30-50%. This is just a precaution to insure there is neither enough ammonia nor nitrite in the tank to zap the bacteria when they hit the water. It will also insure a more stable ph and KH. It will also buy time for the bacteria to settle onto solid surfaces. Yes leave the filters on.
 
Shake the bottle before adding and also turn off the tank lights and leave them off until tomorrow.
 
Continue to test. But after adding the bacteria you need to try not having to change water for 24 or more.
 
I am about 35 minutes from the NY side of the GW Bridge and maybe 25 from the NY side of the Tappan Zee.

I added the tetra safe start 2 small bottles which is up to 60 gallons(I have a 40) which is the more you said I should do. Unfortunatley no I didn't come here first, and I read the directions and added it without a change. I did shut all the lights off and will leave them off for the day. I just noticed one of my green barbs(1 I got yesterday) at the top in the back corner kind've  breathing heavy, but he hasn't broke the surface, and he sank down a bit then went back to the top, when the other barbs come around him he acts fairly normal but they leave and he sits at the top. Is there any advice to what could be wrong there?

 

[fluttermoth]

What are your ammonia and nitrite readings, Squid?

It might be nothing to worry about, on the other hand, it could be the start of a water quality problem. Best to check, seeing as you've bought the tests

Be prepared to a do a big water depending on what the tests read.

It will also insure a more stable ph and KH. It will also buy time for the bacteria to settle onto solid surfaces. Yes leave the filters on.
 
 
Continue to test. But after adding the bacteria you need to try not having to change water for 24 or more.

How long does it take the bacteria to settle, TTA, if the ammonia and/or nitrite are up and Squid needs to water change?

 

[Squid31]

What are your ammonia and nitrite readings, Squid?

It might be nothing to worry about, on the other hand, it could be the start of a water quality problem. Best to check, seeing as you've bought the tests

Be prepared to a do a big water depending on what the tests read.

It will also insure a more stable ph and KH. It will also buy time for the bacteria to settle onto solid surfaces. Yes leave the filters on.
 
 
Continue to test. But after adding the bacteria you need to try not having to change water for 24 or more.

How long does it take the bacteria to settle, TTA, if the ammonia and/or nitrite are up and Squid needs to water change?
 

My ammonia and nitrite both read .25 ppm, and my nitrates read 2.5ppm. I havn't did a water change yet and now after adding the safe start and I don't know if I should. Also I have that one barb that seems to have something wrong now

 

[Squid31]

I'm afraid fish-in cycles can take six to eight weeks, maybe even longer

Do not change the cartridges, even when you've finished cycling, as if you do, you'll lose all the good bacteria you've worked so hard to grow, unless (and this is very important!) they're a chemical media. If they are then you need to change them out now for normal sponges or ceramic rings or other biological media.

The manufacturers only want you to replace the cartridges to get more money off you

So when would be the right time to change a cartridge?

 

[fluttermoth]

Only if it starts to physically break down, and even then you don't just junk it (unless you have other biomedia in the filter?), you take it apart and replace only a bit at a time to give the bacteria time to colonise the new stuff.
 
I'm inclined to advise you to do a smallish water change, say 20% or so and see how things look then. You obviously want to try and let the safe start settle, but you don't want to have the fish suffering either
 
Did you do a water change before you added the safe start as TTA said? I don't think you've said.

 

[Squid31]

Only if it starts to physically break down, and even then you don't just junk it (unless you have other biomedia in the filter?), you take it apart and replace only a bit at a time to give the bacteria time to colonise the new stuff.
 
I'm inclined to advise you to do a smallish water change, say 20% or so and see how things look then. You obviously want to try and let the safe start settle, but you don't want to have the fish suffering either

 
Did you do a water change before you added the safe start as TTA said? I don't think you've said.

Okay, and no I didn't get too sadly I didn't see that post before I added the safe start. So should I do the 20% now? And how could you replace pieces of a cartridge?

 

[Squid31]

Also that one green tiger barb just finally passed, maybe he was just sick from the store, even though he seemed fine yesterday when I first put him in , otherwise all the other fish seem healthy as of now.

 

[fluttermoth]

Okay, and no I didn't get too sadly I didn't see that post before I added the safe start. So should I do the 20% now?

I think I would, yes. It'll get it down a bit without compromising the effect of the safe start (hopefully!)

And how could you replace pieces of a cartridge?

You can usually pull them apart and cut bits off the insides or jam new sponges down the sides.