Water Changes During Fishless Cycle

[m1lky12]

I've been cycling my new 100l Aqua One UFO tank for just over 2 weeks now. Have been putting the ammonia up to 3ppm each day and after the 5th day of testing the ammonia levels went down to 0 and have been constant now for the last two weeks. Within a day or two of the ammonia dropping to 0 after 24 hours, as you'd expect, the nitrite levels rose well over what the test could calculate. However, the nitrate also rose past the maximum being able to be calculated by my kit at the same time. All 3 compounds have been at the same level now for pretty much 2 weeks, I thought this was strange so I tested my tapwater for nitrate levels and they came up as 5-10ppm, so I assume the nitrite is being converted to nitrate, but the original bloom of ammonia into nitrite has meant that the bacteria has been unable to keep up.

Today I done a 75% water change after reading that too much nitrates could possibly stall the cycle. I tested the water before for nitrite, which came up at 3.3ppm as normal, and then tested for nitrates for the first time in a week, the levels had gone down to inbetween 50-110ppm, which could be down to adding plants a couple of days before my last nitrate test.

I hope this makes sense, just asking whether the second stage of cycling takes so much longer than the first? Also was I right to do the water change to hopefully make the numbers more measurable?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Yep..the second stage of the fishless cycle CAN take alot longer, some people have generally said in the past that it can take upto twice as long.
Water changes are usually very benficial during a fishless cycle, it seems the bacteria we grow in our filters prefer a fresh supply of warm, de-chlorinated water as much as our fish do
Keep up the good work, the results you are looking for will no doubt appear in the end!

Terry.

 

[m1lky12]

Thanks Terry, just making sure after the first stage was done so quickly and the second stage has seemed to be dragging for a while now. Just doing everything I can to speed it up as my parents are getting pretty impatient staring at an empty fish tank and not understanding the cycle... one day they'll learn

Just out of interest how often would you do a water change and how much?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Thanks Terry, just making sure after the first stage was done so quickly and the second stage has seemed to be dragging for a while now. Just doing everything I can to speed it up as my parents are getting pretty impatient staring at an empty fish tank and not understanding the cycle... one day they'll learn

Just out of interest how often would you do a water change and how much?

I, personally, do 40% on a weekly basis...avoiding saturdays and sundays as those are the days my particular water company adds the most chemicals (for sufficient effect over the weekend)into our tap water. Tank size, filtration and inhabitants should all be taken into consideration, but a weekly water change will significantly lower the risk of any 'nastys' occuring further down the line.

Terry.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is the problem. Nitrite levels of 5 ppm and above can stall a cycle or even worse. For this reason dosing ammonia to the levels normally suggested on many sites will result in a big nitrite spike (i.e. off the charts). Next thing folks know, the cycle stalls and or regresses and a process which is normally completed in 4-6 weeks drags on an on.

Dosing to 3ppm every day means you are feeding and feeding ammonia which will get converted to nitrite. The problem is the lack of nitrite oxidizing bacteria means there is nothing to process it. So the inevitable result is nitrite will build up to the point of being a negative rather than a normal part of cycling process.

The easiest way to prevent this from happening is to seed a tank with both ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria. This means there are nitrite handlers there from day one. In the absence of the ability to seed a tank, the next best course of action is not to dose too much ammonia. First, dosing between 2 and 3 ppm is sufficient, you can get away with 4 and 5 or more is not a good idea. Over 5 ppm and you should be doing water changes to lower ammonia. Second, ammonia readings should normally be allowed to drop to 0 before one redoses ammonia. Some experts will tell you not to redose until both ammonia and nitrite are at 0. Once you can add 3 ppm of ammonia and 24 hours later read 0 for ammonia and 0 for nitrite and nitrates have risen, you are cycled.

 

[m1lky12]

Here is the problem. Nitrite levels of 5 ppm and above can stall a cycle or even worse. For this reason dosing ammonia to the levels normally suggested on many sites will result in a big nitrite spike (i.e. off the charts). Next thing folks know, the cycle stalls and or regresses and a process which is normally completed in 4-6 weeks drags on an on.

Dosing to 3ppm every day means you are feeding and feeding ammonia which will get converted to nitrite. The problem is the lack of nitrite oxidizing bacteria means there is nothing to process it. So the inevitable result is nitrite will build up to the point of being a negative rather than a normal part of cycling process.

The easiest way to prevent this from happening is to seed a tank with both ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria. This means there are nitrite handlers there from day one. In the absence of the ability to seed a tank, the next best course of action is not to dose too much ammonia. First, dosing between 2 and 3 ppm is sufficient, you can get away with 4 and 5 or more is not a good idea. Over 5 ppm and you should be doing water changes to lower ammonia. Second, ammonia readings should normally be allowed to drop to 0 before one redoses ammonia. Some experts will tell you not to redose until both ammonia and nitrite are at 0. Once you can add 3 ppm of ammonia and 24 hours later read 0 for ammonia and 0 for nitrite and nitrates have risen, you are cycled.

So basically what I need to do now is to either get startup bacteria from a bottle in my LSF? I've read that they don't work though, or do you mean another source to seed the tank? Or to wait till both ammonia and nitrite become 0 before beginning to re-dose? I've read that the ammonia to nitrite bacteria decrease by around 20% a day if they don't have ammonia to feed off so surely if I wait too long I'll have to effectively restart the cycle again? Sorry if I haven't understood the points you were trying to make, just want to cut as much time off the process as possible.

Also just to update after my 75% water change the nitrite levels dropped to between 1.6-3.3ppm (3.3 being the most my test can read) and nitrate level was between 50-110ppm (once again 110 being my tests limit) The ammonia dosed each time after testing has remained at 0 throughout the past two weeks.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

The only proven way to 'seed' your tanks' filter is to add mature media (sponge,noodles or floss)that has been donated to you from a mature, established tanks' filter. Many fish stores will do this, as should anyone you know who has a fishtank themselves.. you can even try the Donation Page on this forum
Many of todays fish enthusiasts continue to doubt the creditability, or lack of it, of todays 'Bacteria in a Bottle' products. There simply isn't the food source they depend on to survive (and thrive) in still water, hence the reason we 'feed' the bacteria with Ammonia. There are theorys, blogs and enthusiasts that will disagree as well though.
Each fishless cycle i have done i would top up to 3/4ppm each time Ammonia hit '0. Continue to do this until your NitrItes hit '0' on a regular basis.. any media donation can, and probably will, greatly increase the bacteria growth.
Keeo at it, it will happen.

Terry.

 

[m1lky12]

Cheers Terry, did start another thread about ammonia dosage and had some more good feedback from that. Won't be trying 'bacteria in a bottle' would rather believe fish keepers on here and other forums who have nothing to gain from the product and say it doesn't work than random internet blogs whose motives are unclear.

I'll swap my noodles with my current tank so that should save a bit of time, though don't want to take any other media out of my cycled filter as it's on it's last legs as it is so don't want to risk my current tanks health. Will look into borrowing some media from my LSF as well, though out of interest how long would the mature media have to be left in a partially cycled filter until it was up to speed? Everything's pretty snug as it is in there so don't want to cram it long term and risk leakage.