Various Questions And Progress (Hopefully) For My First Tank

If your tank started out well cycled, it should be back to functioning properly in about a week. In the meantime, don't hold back on water changes. When I have a problem like that, I tend to do 90% water changes and in a few days all is working well again. I drain so much water the fish have trouble staying wet and not flopping around on the substrate, then refill with dechlorinated temperature matched water. The fish always seem to look better after a change like that to remove the poisons.
 
If your tank started out well cycled, it should be back to functioning properly in about a week. In the meantime, don't hold back on water changes. When I have a problem like that, I tend to do 90% water changes and in a few days all is working well again. I drain so much water the fish have trouble staying wet and not flopping around on the substrate, then refill with dechlorinated temperature matched water. The fish always seem to look better after a change like that to remove the poisons.

Right now I use 2 big buckets to take water away and replace, I think I need something better for the job!

I need to get a hosepipe and something like those cement making buckets (big rubber ones) which can double as storage for all my bits, and I need a pump! I already have a heater and a kettle :)

I haven't done any more than 25L of 125L because my routine, sounds like it will be worthwhile and get the tank over the problem quicker...

What equipment do you use to do a water change? Does it just come down to hard labour :)
 
I use a simple 5 gallon bucket that is used only for my fish. I drain the water using a gravel cleaning siphon and when it gets low enough I replace it using the same bucket and the same gravel cleaning siphon. There are people who indeed use a hose to fill their tanks and I have one of those tools myself. I find that by the time I connect the hose to my mixing faucet and get the temperature right to add directly to the tank, I can be done with the job using a few trips with a bucket. The problem that I have is inserting and removing the adapter piece that lets me use the faucet for my water. I can't just leave it in place because the bathroom sink, where I could connect, is also used for people to wash their hands. The process becomes remove the aerator from the faucet and insert the hose adapter, use the hose for a fill, remove the hose and adapter and finally replace the aerator on the faucet. The constant switching is just not worth the trouble for me compared to the simple fill of a bucket from the kitchen sink where there is room for the bucket. If I had a dedicated faucet just for my fish it would be very different. Returning the water using a bucket can be very easy and controlled too. I set up a simple board across the top of my tank and just place the bucket right on it to do the refill.
BucketOnTop.jpg
 
I use a simple 5 gallon bucket that is used only for my fish. I drain the water using a gravel cleaning siphon and when it gets low enough I replace it using the same bucket and the same gravel cleaning siphon. There are people who indeed use a hose to fill their tanks and I have one of those tools myself. I find that by the time I connect the hose to my mixing faucet and get the temperature right to add directly to the tank, I can be done with the job using a few trips with a bucket. The problem that I have is inserting and removing the adapter piece that lets me use the faucet for my water. I can't just leave it in place because the bathroom sink, where I could connect, is also used for people to wash their hands. The process becomes remove the aerator from the faucet and insert the hose adapter, use the hose for a fill, remove the hose and adapter and finally replace the aerator on the faucet. The constant switching is just not worth the trouble for me compared to the simple fill of a bucket from the kitchen sink where there is room for the bucket. If I had a dedicated faucet just for my fish it would be very different. Returning the water using a bucket can be very easy and controlled too. I set up a simple board across the top of my tank and just place the bucket right on it to do the refill.

Looks like stepping up my water change %'s is in order, I'll do the next bigger one tomorrow. Edit: doing a further 50-60% water change on top of the 20% one from earlier, should do for now

For now I've removed the new carbon filter medium which I'll re-add once all is well, can't do any harm I don't think and there is still a sponge in that tray...
 
My current thinking is this.....As I have a CO2 kit (disposable pressurised variety) I might as well, in a month or two, start introducing as an absolute max 1 bubble per second with a few more low light plants in there, just to see whether it have any positive effect with growth. It must be of some benefit to the plants regardless of the amount of light.

This is true. Very few and very low light are the planted tanks that will not benefit from CO2 injection. If your tank is low light, then measuring CO2 levels (look up drop checkers and 4dKH) will not be too important. Be aware though, that dabbling in CO2 can bring more trouble than it is worth with algae issues. Have a read up and make sure you are aware of the importance of non limiting, stable CO2 and how to achieve this. It is not as difficult as it may first appear.

I have a test kit I can monitor CO2 with so I can figure out whether it is all being absorbed by the plants or not and alter the rate accordingly.

How are you measuring CO2? We do not measure CO2 levels as a means of plant uptake of carbon. We measure it to a nominal figure, up to a max of 30ppm in the highest carbon uptake tanks, and less for slower growth tanks, to ensure that it is not limiting plant growth. With a little time, it is possible to dispense with measuring CO2 altogether, and use plant health and any appearance of algae as a far more reliable means of ensuring there is sufficient CO2 available around the tank. Levels may be fine in some areas, but low in other areas of restricted flow. This is where power heads become useful to ensure tank wide nutrient distribution.#

I think this way I get an appreciation, 1st hand, of CO2 and planted aquariums without going all out

I am going to play Devil`s advocate here and say that it is possible to become too cautious when approaching planted tanks. With a solid understanding of light requirements, CO2, ferts, and ensuring these are available all around the tank, healthy planted tanks are a doddle. They really are. Why not get straight in there with pressurised CO2 and a comprehensive fert regime, and give yourself the option to grow anything you want from day one? I, plus many others, have done this successfully. We succeeded because, ultimately, it is easy, even for the abject beginners that we were. All you need is an understanding of the basics of plant care.

Much much further down the line when I may get involved in 2+ watts/gallon lighting and more difficult plants I can get full on with it…..

You will never need > 2WPG. Lighting may be called a skill set, but here is what you need to know: with two T8 lamps the length of your tank, there will be enough light to grow anything you like.

There has been a fair amount of measuring of light in aquariums relatively recently, and it turns out that plants are not anything like as dependent on light as most of us thought. Give them sufficient light and any plant will grow. Add CO2 in the correct manner and growth can be increased by up to a factor of ten. Just make sure all the other ferts are up to scratch too, which is easy with an all in one such as Tropica TPN+.

As for “difficult” plants, I am not sure which ones these are. Many struggle with HC, and there are one or two soft water loving plants such as Tonina sp, but the vast majority of plants are easy (a lot of them are considered weeds). Vallisneria sp, gets touted as a hard water plant only, but give it time and it will adapt to soft water.

When it comes to plants think light, CO2 and ferts. Forget pH, GH, KH, spectrum, kelvin etc, etc. Actually, don`t forget GH entirely. I have very soft tap water, so I did go through a period of adding GH booster to make more Ca and Mg available to my plants. I have since stopped adding it to see what would result, but there was nothing observable to note, so I no longer add it.

Getting an understanding of the fundamental principles of planted tanks takes a little reading, but once the penny drops on the light, carbon, ferts relationship it becomes easy.

Dave.
 
Well after 3 days of water changes I have the Ammonium down to under 1 mg/l but not gone yet, any time now I should see a nitrite spike right? Has it been the case before when only a ammonium spike could be seen, i.e. plenty of bacteria to break down Nitrites but not for ammonia? Just wondering as I get into this stage...

My water changes and reading were approx:

Day 0 - NH3 @ 3 mg/l :(
Day 1 - 60-70% - NH3 @ 2 mg/l
Day 2 - 20% - NH3 @ <1 mg/l
Day 3 - 20% - NH3 @ <1 mg/l

Day 2 and 3 readings both look to be the same, just under 1 mg/l I estimate, is this okay?

Does all this look as expected for a mini-cycle, as long as I keep the Ammonium levels down to 1 mg/l or below and the same for Nitrites if they rise, is this routine good enough? Should I be changing more water per day? I figured the one big change up front followed by smaller daily changes would suffice...


All my fish seem okay, seen a few poops here and there without anything to be alarmed about. My 3 new oto arrivals which I suspect would be the first of my fish to have a problem with a mini-cycle seem absolutely fine, munching traces of green/brown algae off glass/leaves. Famous last words I know...

Any reassurances/suggestions are most welcome :)
 
Since you are having trouble getting NH3 under control, cut back on feeding. That should help a bit by producing less ammonia to start with. If your filter was in fairly good shape, the nitrites may never spike at all. The 3 new otocinclus may well be the reason for the mini-cycle. Adding fish to an existing tank must be done slowly or you can expect to see the balance between fish load and bacteria become unbalanced. New fish added should never be more than a small percentage of what is already in the tank.
 
Since you are having trouble getting NH3 under control, cut back on feeding. That should help a bit by producing less ammonia to start with. If your filter was in fairly good shape, the nitrites may never spike at all. The 3 new otocinclus may well be the reason for the mini-cycle. Adding fish to an existing tank must be done slowly or you can expect to see the balance between fish load and bacteria become unbalanced. New fish added should never be more than a small percentage of what is already in the tank.


Yep, it seems so obvious now that there is a limit to what you add to a tank in one go - I basically added half again of my population albeit smaller in size...way too much looking back. I wont be making this mistake again, ever...I'm almost at my limit with my current tank anyway. Once all is well (and a bit longer :)) the danios come out and something else the schools goes in, whatever type of fish it needs to be able to happily dwell in PH levels between 7.5-8 - they will be added in pairs/triples...



 
Still ongoing with the water changes, just a trace of ammonia when I tested yesterday, gone when I next test I hope, slow going but positive none the less. I haven't feed the fish at all for a couple of days now and all is well with them.

My zebra Danios are actually in a courtship frenzy at the moment, which is always a good sign :)
The 2 males have filled out with a more distinct golden colour and are chasing females around the tank, in a very really impressive display of their swimming skills. I am 70% sure I saw some egg laying and fertilisation, soon followed by my 2 firemouths getting into the soup :( I don't have a second tank, otherwise I would move the Danios and let them get busy somewhere safe...still, it really is nice to see some of my fish getting all natural

I'm thinking I might just buy more Danios when the cycling is done rather than re-homing them and getting something else. I can take the count up to 9 based on AqAdvisor

Can anyone else share any interesting Zebra Danio behaviour? How regular can this golden display happen?
 
We'll the mini-cycle isn't budging, if it is a mini-cycle?

I haven't seen more than 1 Amano shrimp in the tank, I am not sure if 3 of the original 4 have been eaten, are rotting somewhere or hiding somewhere which I can't find?

My measurements from the past weeks are as follows:

20091229-10_51_45.jpg


Any ideas as to what I can do next? Just keep changing water daily or what? This is taking a lot longer than I thought it would?

I've given the fish a little meal (very little, one pinch of flakes and half an algae tablet) as it has been a week without food for them and I'll do a 30% water change later today to bring that Ammonia down again, but this is very frustrating...patience I hear you all say :)

Your help / reasssurance is much appreciated

Cheers,
Mark
 
It looks like your water changes, when you were doing them, were keeping the ammonia under control. Did you do something with your filter, like maybe change the cartridge or wash the media under tap water? That is all that I can see that would do this to a cycled tank.
 
It looks like your water changes, when you were doing them, were keeping the ammonia under control. Did you do something with your filter, like maybe change the cartridge or wash the media under tap water? That is all that I can see that would do this to a cycled tank.

I upgraded to a new external filter, 1) I ran both old and new together for a week, I then moved the media from the old internal to the new and ran that for a week or so with no bad side effects and then finally I introduced extra fish (as in my previous post)...could it have anything to do with the change from a small to a large capacity media filter? I was running a U3 internal and upgraded to a TetraTec EX1200...

Maybe it should have been left to mature for a LOT longer?





 
It used to be thought that bacteria and their biofilms were just a loose jumble of cells and sticky excretion materials and that you could move them around at will. Its now known that bacterial biofilms are actually quite complex little structures with tiny water channels created in specific patterns within the biofilm to carry ammonia/ammonium and oxygenated water through to all the cells.

Its still quite true that our biomedia constitute biofilms on a mighty scale, compared to an individual biofilm structure studied in a microscope and thus they can nearly always be moved and fiddled with while still having great success. But the possibility is always there that the activity of the colonies will be disturbed (paused, delayed or even ruined) by our transplantations and fiddlings. For that reason I always advocate the "re-qualification" of a biofilter via the standard fishless cycling technique (watching it drop 5ppm ammonia concentration to zero ppm within 12 hours of when dosed for a week) if at all possible, prior to introducing fish.

I realize the above is more theoretical and not so specific to your problem. You've done a good job with your actions. It just may be that you've got a combination of "pause" from the change to your bacteria and also the need for them to grow some due to the addition of fish (didn't read back to see if you introduced more than before) that together have got you in a mini-cycling situation. Of course the thing to do is just keep up the testing and gravel-cleaning-water-changing!

~~waterdrop~~
 
Thanks for the explanations as always

I also had a peek at my filter innards and had a scare when the filter leaked after reassembly...after reading about the issue I applied a little vasoline around the o-ring of the filter head and no more leak :) I did think I was going to have to get a replacement filter for a little while which would have made my situation slightly less manageable to say the least...thankfully, no leaks with the new filter again as yet

I'll keep up the water changes indefinitely for now..

Will one water change every 2 days be sufficient at these levels of ammonia? I know zero should be the desired level but is having a max of 1 mg/l at any one time okay if changing water every other day?

I have never worried about bloody fish this much in my life!
 

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