Urgent Help Needed Please

[kkcrd11]

I've never heard that about the oxygen in the water before - I'm learning something new every day! I'll be sure to take this advice on board for my water changes in the future. For example, I use 5L bottles to store my new water in for about 24 hours before a change but I always close the lid, I should really be leaving it off right?

Sorry if this classes as a threadjack!

No not at all


Fishy is looking a little better now hes swimming with his pals again . maybe not as straight as id like but hes improved greatly and they aren't gasping anymore so all good so far thanks everyone .

 

[afremont]

I've never heard that about the oxygen in the water before - I'm learning something new every day! I'll be sure to take this advice on board for my water changes in the future. For example, I use 5L bottles to store my new water in for about 24 hours before a change but I always close the lid, I should really be leaving it off right?

Sorry if this classes as a threadjack!

It's not just oxygen, but also other gasses like nitrogen, in other words air that is dissolved into the water. Here is some good tech information on it:
http/www.atlantech.ca/public/articles/Dissolved%20Gases%20in%20Aquaculture.PDF
Whenever you quickly raise the water temp by 6C, you run the risk of having any dissolved gasses reaching the point of supersaturation. By running an airstone in the bucket with the heater, the air/water surface of the bubbles cause the excess gasses to come out of solution as the water warms up. Also pouring the water from a height into the tank helps break up any excess gasses as well.

I find it odd that this is rarely mentioned in the forums, but I have seen numerous posts recently, and in the past, on various boards where people were asking about strange looking air bubbles, usually in the fins. The ones you can see in the fins and such are fairly benign because they will eventually dissipate. It's the ones you can't see forming in the internal organs that can cause fish to mysteriously die.

EDIT: To answer your question about the lid. Unless the lid is air tight and you keep the container pressurized, the dissolved gasses won't be held in, they will still come out.

Sorry for being off topic.

 

[kkcrd11]

Okay its been two days since I first posted and the fishy isnt floating upside down anymore but hes still acting strange , he was fine again swimming with friends as i said but then i did another water change just to be safe and now hes back at the filter hanging around near the top of the tank . I poured the water from a height and looked for any little bubbles etc there isn't any. This started about twenty minutes after the last water change. I added tetra aquasafe to the water that added . Tested it with the api test kit before adding it and made sure temp was matched . I don't know whats going wrong. hes eating fine. He goes mad when food goes in . and comes down from the filter if i am around the tank to look at me and beg for food but when no ones looking he just sits up there hanging about and drinking/gasping at the top . The Bigger orange and white fantail is doing the same but not as much the blackmoor never does it !


I tried to add a video but imageshack wont upload it nor will photobucket my connection must be rubbish

Water stats in tank right now are Amonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10

 

[snazy]

What's the temperature before and after you do a water change? Maybe you are shocking them with too great of a difference?
From your initial post you said the problem started since you removed some filter media. This may have caused a bit of an ammonia rise at the time.
My point is that fish staying at the surface may not only mean lack of oxygen, but after a few ammonia and temp shocks it's normal that they can get a disease and I would keep an eye on them for secondary signs. Maybe your fish have parasites if you can't see any external signs. Do they eat normally and have a normal poop?

 

[kkcrd11]

I always ensure water is a similar temp before adding and its never been an issue before ive been doing weekly changes.

I cant see it being the removal of a little media as like i said i have to filters and only took a small amount from one.

Im inclined to think its the tapwater even though its testing fine as it seems a days after the water change they are fine again they are all swimming happily again today yet last night were gasping and i haven't changed anything or added anything . Could it be from when i gravel clean I have heard of bacteria living in the gravel that can come up when its disturbed . I gravel clean weekly and these last time is the only time the fish have had a problem . Im really puzzled looking at them right now you wouldn't think anything was wrong at all . Its making me reluctant to want to do a water change when the time comes

 

[afremont]

I always ensure water is a similar temp before adding and its never been an issue before ive been doing weekly changes.

I cant see it being the removal of a little media as like i said i have to filters and only took a small amount from one.

Im inclined to think its the tapwater even though its testing fine as it seems a days after the water change they are fine again they are all swimming happily again today yet last night were gasping and i haven't changed anything or added anything . Could it be from when i gravel clean I have heard of bacteria living in the gravel that can come up when its disturbed . I gravel clean weekly and these last time is the only time the fish have had a problem . Im really puzzled looking at them right now you wouldn't think anything was wrong at all . Its making me reluctant to want to do a water change when the time comes

So, when you do a water change, the fish act weird for a day or so? What dechlorinator are you using? Prime is very concentrated and it's easy to over do it. I've seen people recommend to add enough to treat the whole tank even though they are only doing a partial change. I don't think this is necessarily the right thing to do. I treat the water in the bucket with what is approximately a double dose which allows for high levels of chlorine and chloramine which we have, especially in the winter. I then pour it into the tank. I've seen a few anecdotal reports of fish acting weird for about 24 hours after using Prime.

Thought: Since the gills are responsible for excreting the majority of the ammonia from the fish, perhaps Prime's ability to "lock up" ammonia prevents the fish from excreting the ammonia as efficiently by penetrating the membrane of some species and binding with the ammonia on the other side that is trying to get out. Just a wild guess really, but based upon the anecdotal reports the fish seem to be experiencing some kind of gill irritant.

This wouldn't apply to only Prime, but to perhaps any dechlorinator that "locks up" ammonia. Dechlorinator ingredients seem to vary. Used to be that sodium thiosulphate was the only thing, but now there are some really oddball chemicals with similar, but different names. That's why Prime really smells one way and Amquel smells differently. They also use different chemicals to "break the chloramine bond", there probably hasn't been a huge amount of research on how these apparently short-lived chemicals affect the myriad of functions going on inside a fish.

 

[kkcrd11]

I use tetra goldfish aquasafe in thier tank . and like you i dont dose the whole tank just the bucket.

They have no visible signs of illness the fins look great, gills look good its really odd and they are swimming fine they eat normally and have normal poop .

The little calicos belly looks a bit swollen but its hard to tell hes fat normally but very small so his size makes his belly look odd he doesn't seem to grow much lengthwise just width lol

 

[kkcrd11]

here is a picture of the two that do the gasping . As i said before the blackmoor doesnt do it at all ever he is just happily food hunting round the tank

can you see any signs of ilness from these pics they aren't brilliant pics though .

http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/tropicalfishforum.jpg/

This is the one who does it the most and hangs near the filter
http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/calicof.jpg/

a little vid no idea why its side on though http/imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/687/bqyt.mp4/

 

[kkcrd11]

Okay an update tested my water tonight and for the first time ever got an amonia reading not quite .25 but inbetween 0 and .25 . I've done a 30% water change but they are still hanging at the surface even more so now i've changed the water . I'm at a loss ive taken as much advice as i can. and done the things ive been told . read up as much as i can and have no idea what to do

Amonia is now at 0 again . but for some reason my fishies arent liking me changing the water and still my blackmoor is oblivious to the apparent problems the other two are having so maybe it isnt the water after all. sigh im thinking Im not cut out for this fishkeeping stuff


can you get any clues from the pics or vid in my last post maybe some tell tale sign on the body of the fish that I am unaware of . Any help would be appreciated and im open to criticism if i am doing something wrong .

 

[kkcrd11]

Does nobody have any suggestions Im running out of ideas and cant stand to see the fish at the top all day. does anyone think salt may help ? i have some tonic salts i hear these are good for fish if showing signs of sickness ??

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Have you changed dechlorinator recently?

If you stir the gravel does it kick up a lot of debris?

Also, phone your local water authority and ask them if they've been doing any work on the pipes in your area and explain the problem you're having with the fish.

 

[kkcrd11]

Thanks Prime for your response .

I haven't changed dechlorinator and I have contacted the water board as we did we have to big pipe bursts a few streets away a few weeks ago , However they told me this wouldnt have meant that the pipes would have been flushed and also Im actually not 100% sure its a water quality issue as i have another tank (tropical) and those fish (neons and black widows ) are fine after the water changes.

The gravel kicks up some fine dirt but not much as i do gravel weekly and sometimes midweek as well if i get off work early.

I am now wondering if the tank could be getting too warm and if this is the cause as the lid feels hot above the bulb like really hot however the plastic underneath that protects the light from water doesnt but i have been surprised at some water changes at how warm the water feels in there. so maybe the water is getting gradually warmer as the day goes on . as they are never at the tp when i get up its always later in the day . the light in there is just an energy saving bulb it isn't a tube like my other tank. the only other thing i can think is the PH being low but im not confident enough in fishkeeping to mess a round with that really.

I am going to buy a better dechlorinator today as tetra aquasafe doesnt mention anything about cholramine ? I use fresh start in the tropical tank with no issues but this also doesn't mention chloramine (i think thats what its called ) can anyone advise a good one.

I'm going out to buy a thermometer for their tank today im going to see the difference with the light off and after lights been on for a few hours . I had to use their old thermometer for the tropicals when the heater played up .

 

[kkcrd11]

Okay so its not the water nor the temperature as they are both stable and little calico just seems to be idly floating/ drifting around the top today . I have some melafix and some epsom salts to hand but am not sure if either of these will do any good ??

 

[Prime Ordeal]

The tetra aquasafe does say that it handles chloramine but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles ammonia and I find it suspicious that they don't state that. Try to get some Seachem Prime, you'll probably have to get it from eBay as most local fish shops don't stock it.

I suppose it could be a very slight swim bladder problem and that in turn could be caused by constipation. Is the fish pooing and eating normally? The epsom salts can be used as a bath to relieve constipation and it couldn't hurt to try. Dissolve just under a teaspoon of salts per litre in some tank water in a separate container and let him float for about 15 to 20 minutes. Remove early if there's signs of stress.

Is there any signs of abnormality in the gills? Are they enlarged, redder than normal or producing mucus?

 

[kkcrd11]

Thankyou for yourt time. I will order some prime today , I did look in the shops but to no avail I wonder why if its so popular amongst fishkeepers it isnt more readilly available . I did get some stress coat though.

The fish poos fine and eats yes .

I have another fantail who does the floating thing as well but he isn't as frequent as the little calico and as for his gills one of them is different from the other as one appears darker but given that he is a calico and has red/brown speckles/markings pretty much all over its very hard to tell . here are some pics of both gills ( not great again though ). His belly always looks fat , too fat for his short body to be honest but he has been like that since we got him and had no problems till now .

http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/calicofantail2.jpg/

http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/calicofantail.jpg/

This is both the fish who do the floating as you can see the bigger fishes gills are fine http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/tropicalfishforum.jpg/