Urgent! Discus not eating and pale

[Barry Tetra]

As the title says
The red discus live in 55 gal tank with other 4
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 15-18

@Colin_T @Lajos_Detari

 

[Barry Tetra]

@AbbeysDad @Byron

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I guess the most possible cause is "internal worms".

Two diseases that commonly affect the Discus are:
1)Gill flukes
Symptoms : Fast breathing and fish scratching against objects or tank.
Treatment : Praziquantel, Flubendazole(more effective). Most of the gill flukes have developed resistance to Praziquantel due to overuse of this medication.

2)Internal worms or parasites or bacteria.
Symptoms : Fish will stop eating, lose appetite. When you feed them food, the fish will even turn away from the food. Fish may become skinny (but not necessarily).
Fish may have white poops (but not all the time).

Treatment:
Internal worms : Flubendazole (may need to treat for about one month)
Internal parasites: Metronidazole
Internal bacteria : I am still unsure which brand has the best medication for this but you can try Interpret brand.

Based on my readings from the internets and books about Discus, I realized tht the Discus may have been infected with these two diseases while in the fish farms or fish stores.

The internal infections are often caused by feeding with live food - worms or even the beef heart which oftens happened at the fish farms or fish stores.

This internal infections may not show any symptom immediately when you first bought the fish.
Sometimes it may even take a few months before showing any symptoms.

I had even read of many cases of people being infected with worms (it's in the news) due to eating of raw fish(Japanese, Koreans, Thai people) and raw beef.
In fact, any raw meat will carry parasites, worms and bacteria with them.


Here is the list of medications from different brands:
1) Flubendazole :
Wormer Plus :

WORMER PLUS 20g (For Tropical Fish Flukes & Parasite)

Discus Wormer Plus Now in smart new updated packaging to celebrate 15 years since wormer plus first came out. Many fish come from massive river systems where water changes all the time. This is the difference to keeping them trapped in a 'glass box' & with nowhere to escape, unwanted pest can...

jzxonline.com

Kusuri Wormer Plus Review

Worms, flukes and parasites disturb the entire balance of an aquarium tank. Kusuri Wormer Plus claims to adress this issue. Read this detailed review

www.aquarium-water-treatments.com

2) Metronidazole
Hexa or Metro Cure by Eiho (could be a Singapore brand). They changed the bottle/packing name. It's either Hexa or Metro.

EIHO Hexa Cure (100 Tabs)

HEXA CURE TREATS FLAGELLATED PROTOZOA. 100 tabs HEXA CURE is effective to combat heamita and spironucleus flagellates found in aquarium fishes.Some of the common disease includes Hole-in-the-head. Symptoms are commonly dark colour body and eat poorly. The feces are white and stringy. Infected...

www.houseofdiscus.shop

EIHO Metro Cure 100 Tabs

metro

eastoceansg.com

3)Praziquantel :
- API General Cure (but it's not cheap and too little if you want to use it for longer period) which contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel.

API® | GENERAL CURE™

API GENERAL CURE fish remedy treats a wide variety of parasitic diseases.

apifishcare.com

DailyMed - API GENERAL CURE- metronidazole praziquantel powder

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov

.

Aquarium Fish Medicine | Fish Medication | Fish Disease Treatment

Is your pet fish getting sick? After years of testing, we've narrowed down the best medicines proven to treat bacterial, fungal, and parasitic infections.

www.aquariumcoop.com

- Praziquantel by Eiho

EIHO Prazi Gold 250ml

Prazi GoldTreatment for internal and external parasites like flukes, tapeworm, flatwormSafe for scaleless fishes and plantsEIHO Prazi Gold eliminates a wide range of internal and external parasites. Such parasites include flukes and heartworms in the internal organs of fishes.During early...

eastoceansg.com

4) Anti-internal bacteria by Interpret:

Interpet - Anti Internal Bacteria Plus - 100ml

Anti Internal Bacteria Plus – 100ml | Treat systemic bacteria infections. Includes market leading breakthrough formulas for the best results.

www.interpet.co.uk

My recommendation if you suspect that its internal infection -
Start with Wormer Plus(Flubendazole) or any De-worm products that you can find at your local fish store.

I used Flubendazole on all my Discus and they started to pass out white poop after a few weeks.
I used it to kill all the worms and gill flukes in my tank and I stopped feeding them with beef heart.
They are completely free from worms and parasites now.

My Discus is laying eggs the third round now. But they are still young and inexperience in taking care of the fry. I hope they will succeed soon. The female is Red Melon and the male is Blue Tiger.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Here is the description about Wormer Plus:

WORMER PLUS 20g (For Tropical Fish Flukes & Parasite)


Discus Wormer Plus
Now in smart new updated packaging to celebrate 15 years since wormer plus first came out. Many fish come from massive river systems where water changes all the time. This is the difference to keeping them trapped in a 'glass box' & with nowhere to escape, unwanted pest can build up & possibly be a problem to fish. Using wormer plus on a regular basis will help keep these pest down. If any fish is in good health, not picked on and kept in the correct conditions worms should not a problem. But as soon as the fish is stressed or bullied, its natural immunity is compromised and worms or other pest can take a hold. A sure sign of a worm problem is when the fish still eats, yet is wafer thin with the famous pinched in look above the eyes. Wormer plus will rid discus & aquarium fish of internal helminths, plus a host of other pest including ring worm where some other wormer's have failed. Although a second dose after four days will be needed in heavy infestations of flukes. So if your discus looks black, emaciated or just worn out use wormer plus on a regular basis and do them a favour. It is not necessary to turn off U/V sterilisation during its application, but it is advisable to remove carbon whilst using this medication for full effect.

• Wormer plus can be mixed with other aquarium medications.
• 100% safe & will not harm the biological filtration.
• Can be used with free-swimming fry from one week old.
• 100% safe to use in aquariums with plants.
• An easy to use 30 UK gallons (136.38 litres) measuring scoop is supplied in every pack, making it easy to measure out and to administer the treatment.
• Full instructions are on the back of every pack.
• Using wormer plus once a month will help to keep your valued discus & fish in tip top health.

Flubendazole is the effective main active ingredient, & works differently to other fluke treatments by gently starving the parasite. Making this product perfectly safe for regular usage. Naturally sourced calcium carbonate is blended in & acts as a gentle booster and 'pick me up' after the pests are killed. A minuscule amount of Natural Calcium carbonate (0.01g) is blended with the Flubenzonal to adjust a very slight drop in PH from adding the Flubenzonal. This cleverly balances out this medication making very little (if any) difference to PH when using wormer plus.

• Marketed with the small animal exemption scheme.
• It is 100% legal; passed with risk phrases and safety phrases.
• It is recommended to worm your fish once a month for trouble free discus keeping.
• To use, simply mix in a food grade container half filled with aquarium water; secure tight fitting lid and shake to mix the medication. Add to aquarium over a one-minute period.
• Wormer plus will not raise your PH.
• Complies with the good manufacturing practice (GMP).

Discus had a bad name as a difficult fish to keep, some said imposable. NOT SO, just misunderstood. As long as they have the right conditions & free of parasites they are just as easy to keep as any other tropical fish. Discus keeping in the old days was regarded as a fish shrouded in mystery, and difficult to keep. Just to be kept by the experts and the highly experienced. It is recommended to worm your discus once a month for trouble free discus keeping and this will give them a flying start if introducing new stock. Now keeping your favourite tropical fish has never been easier.
WARNING: It is advisable NOT to use this medication in a tank containing stingrays or pet snails

 

[Lajos_Detari]

If your Discus only have internal worms, you can get the smaller packet of 5gram instead of the 20 grams.

But if you are also treating them for gill flukes, then the 20 gram can last longer.

 

[FishBR]

Before medicanitng the fish, please provide more information. Discus require clean water. What is your water change regime? How much water do you change and how often? I see that you have gravel in the tank. I would not recommend keeping discus with that kind of substrate. A bare bottom tank or sand makes it it easier to keep the tank clean. It it was me, I would replace that gravel and increase the frequency and volume of water change. Start by doing a large (about 80%) water change.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Other brands of deworm products:

EIHO Worm EX 500ml

Treat internal worms infestation like roundworms, camallanus, nematodes EIHO Worm EX contains a strong, fast-action anti-worm agent. These worms, such as roundworms, may be present in fishes caught in the wild, as well as fishes fed with live food. Once the worms have established in the gut or...

jzxonline.com

DiscusX Wormer (20g)

Wormer X is prescribed to treat internal round worms parasite that can infect tropical fish like, Capillaria and Camallanus.DirectionsBefore treatment clean the aquarium glass, substrate and filter to reduce the organic waste load. 
On day one add 1 level of included spoon (1 g) for every 500...

www.houseofdiscus.shop

 

[Lajos_Detari]

EIHO Worm EX 500ml


Treat internal worms infestation like roundworms, camallanus, nematodes
EIHO Worm EX contains a strong, fast-action anti-worm agent. These worms, such as roundworms, may be present in fishes caught in the wild, as well as fishes fed with live food. Once the worms have established in the gut or intestinal system, it will be difficult for the fish to expel the worms naturally. It can take 1-3 months before the fish exhibits symptoms. During this period, the worms may release more larvae and infect other fishes in the tank.
Symptoms of an infected fish include:
Weight loss even if it is well-fed
White slimy excretions, that are part of damaged walls cause by large worms
Note that other parasites, such as flagellates, cause similar symptoms (recommended treatment using metro cure)
Swims away from other fishes
Remains at the bottom of tank and may have rotating movement
Bloated abdomen
In camallanus infections, worms (thread-like) may be excreted from fish

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

I don't think we need to jump into medications straight away.
The nitrates are a little high, as a rule of thumb i try and keep mine below 10 ideally 5ppm
That being said some extra information wont hurt.
How long have you had them, they look quite small?
What's your regular schedule?
It does look quite skinny, how long has it not been eating?

 

[Colin_T]

The red discus is skinny and sunken in around the head. This means it hasn't been eating or digesting food properly for a while. It might also be getting bullied. However, if the fish was eating well yesterday and stopped today, then it probably has an internal protozoan or bacterial infection. Internal protozoan infections are common in discus from Asia and Metronidazole is the recommended treatment.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

The red discus is skinny and sunken in around the head.

Yeah due to the size I thought more along the lines of non infection, IME that sort of wasting doesn't happen fast. but then again we would need a time frame?
They look quite young so I wonder if it is aggression or maybe a husbandry issue.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

If the fish is hiding at a corner and afraid to come out to eat, then it's being bullied.
If your tank is at least 4 ft, usually there is enough space for the fish to move around and prevent itself from being bullied.

To solve the bullying issue, you can drop the food at a few places in the tank so that it has the chance to eat.
Other fish won't be able to stop/prevent it from eating if you drop the food at a few places in the tank.

But if it still come out to join the rest, then there is no aggression issue. In this case, it's the internal infection tht caused it to lose appetite. It will stop eating.
It may have stopped eating for quite some time but probably you didnt notice it.
Was the fish eating when it first came?

Most fish problem are due to diseases unless your water quality is really bad.
Or if you over feed them and don't do enough water change, then you will have problem.
If you change your tank water frequently, then there won't be any issue.
Also for poor water issue, it will affect not just one fish but most of the fish or all the fish.

 

[Barry Tetra]

Before medicanitng the fish, please provide more information. Discus require clean water. What is your water change regime? How much water do you change and how often? I see that you have gravel in the tank. I would not recommend keeping discus with that kind of substrate. A bare bottom tank or sand makes it it easier to keep the tank clean. It it was me, I would replace that gravel and increase the frequency and volume of water change. Start by doing a large (about 80%) water change.

I do 50% daily water changes and 75% weekly

The red discus is skinny and sunken in around the head. This means it hasn't been eating or digesting food properly for a while. It might also be getting bullied. However, if the fish was eating well yesterday and stopped today, then it probably has an internal protozoan or bacterial infection. Internal protozoan infections are common in discus from Asia and Metronidazole is the recommended treatment.

She just stopped eating yesterday, I'll try Metronidazole.

 

[CassCats]

A thought.

You have a post with some other fish (swordtails and barbs i believe) where they may be infected with internal parasites. Do you use the same equipment to water change all your tanks?

(Not asking out of judgment, but asking to see if maybe there's a common thing that's affecting your tanks)

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Here are some info from Plymouth Discus:

Discus Health - Plymouth Discus

Discus Health, Discus Worming, Discus First Aid, Bacteria, Worming

plymouthdiscus.com