Two Zebra's Died After Weekly Water Change, Should I Be Worried?

[Cory_Dad]

I agree with Colin_T. You probably poisioned the fish by treating the water after it was added, and not adding treated water. The stuff I use says it neutralises chlorine and heavy metals straight away, so I simply add the required amount to a 5 litre bottle, then fill it with fresh tap water (doing it this way round mixes it better), then add some water from the kettle to bring it up to temp. Get 4 of these bottles and you can do it in batches then which saves time.

You may well be right but with a 60 gallon tank that's a lot of 5 litre bottles.

I don't really think it's velvet either because I just received the Corydoras books I purchased from Ian and looking at the pictures I see that a lot of the Corys have the same golden sparkles that mine do. On Saturday one of the adult males in the 60 was lying on it's side. I transfered him into the 2.5 with the juveniles. Then on Sunday the other male was swimming weird. He to was moved. Then 30 minutes later the pregnant female was moved as well!

They all seem to be ok except for the first adult male, the skin is rubbed raw above his nose. The only place I can think he could do it is on one of the two air stones as there is no gravel in the tank.

It seems that my 60 is cursed for Corys. All the other fish seem to be doing ok except that a couple of the adult Platies have their fins clamped although they are eating so there is still something going on there.

Someone suggested that it is an internal bacteria so today I stopped the Pimafix and Melafix (after 8 days) and started Jungle Anti-Bacteria food. I'm also going to do a change on the 60. I have a 5 gallon pail so I'll try that.

I'm quite wary of ever putting the Corys back in. How can I be certain I've solved the problem?

Thank you all so much for your feedback. It is truly appreciated.

 

[Tolak]

What brand of dechlorinator are you using? Often water companies will increase chlorine, chloramine, and buffers depending on the quality of the source water. Their main concern is the health of humans, they could care less about your fish.

For now I would double, or even triple dose with your dechlorinator, as long as it deals with chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. I double or triple dose with Prime all winter long. Extra won't hurt anything.

It pays to learn as much about your water company and supply as possible, this way you can usually predict when they will be jacking up the additives.

I change out 500 gallons weekly, 500 out, 500 in. How many 5 liter bottles is that? Beats me, I hose it in, and dechlor on the fly with everything except hatching tanks. Month old fry get chlorinated water, with dechlor added as the hose is running.

I have some 40 gallon tanks with overflows. I turn off the sponge filters, fill with the hose, when my drain can has 20 gallons in it I'm done. I add dechlor, then turn the sponges back on. These tanks have everything from nickel size angels, some wilds, some black super veils that are potential breeders, along with a handful of corys in each tank for cleanup. If I were loosing fish I would change my procedure, I'm not loosing fish. I could also write a short story on what the city of Chicago does to their water when & why.

There is also evidence of bacteria contained in municipal water supply systems that will convert chloramine to its components, chlorine & ammonia, then use the ammonia as a food source, the same as in your tank. This topic may be of interest; http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/16.../Water-Changes/

Now, if your bio filtration contains little or none of this bacteria, a large water change after your water supplier has jacked the chloramine could cause trouble, especially if you have not added enough dechlorinator to compensate. I know plenty of old school aquarists who do 20% water changes twice weekly, without treating anything. They are a throwback to the chlorine only days, which would gas out, causing no problems. They have no idea of the science behind what they are doing today, having chloramine added, all they know is if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Tolak]

Your town adds chloramine to the water it is supplied from Toronto, Peel Region, which originates from Lake Ontario; http/www.markham.ca/NR/rdonlyres/8E0A6DD...ort_MOE2007.pdf

If it is treated anything like the water I get from Lake Michigan they will jack up the additives before & after rainfall, the same goes for high wind conditions both of which will stir up the lake bottom.

 

[fisH2O]

I guess it depends on how much water you intend on changing. I only do 20% everyweek or sometimes every 2 weeks. So for a 60 gal, you'd change 12, which is less than 12 5-litre bottles. So 4 bottles at a time is only 3 trips from tap to tank. But yeah depends on how much you're changing in one go.


I have 2 brochis corys. Had them for over 5 years now, and one of them has just got a large wound on its nose from swimming into things when spooked. I put this down to the recent addition of some serpae tetras which seem to like the taste of their fins considerably, so they're moved elsewhere now!

Looks like it has some fungus growths around the wound now.

 

[Cory_Dad]

What brand of dechlorinator are you using? Often water companies will increase chlorine, chloramine, and buffers depending on the quality of the source water. Their main concern is the health of humans, they could care less about your fish.

For now I would double, or even triple dose with your dechlorinator, as long as it deals with chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. I double or triple dose with Prime all winter long. Extra won't hurt anything.

It pays to learn as much about your water company and supply as possible, this way you can usually predict when they will be jacking up the additives.

I change out 500 gallons weekly, 500 out, 500 in. How many 5 liter bottles is that? Beats me, I hose it in, and dechlor on the fly with everything except hatching tanks. Month old fry get chlorinated water, with dechlor added as the hose is running.

I have some 40 gallon tanks with overflows. I turn off the sponge filters, fill with the hose, when my drain can has 20 gallons in it I'm done. I add dechlor, then turn the sponges back on. These tanks have everything from nickel size angels, some wilds, some black super veils that are potential breeders, along with a handful of corys in each tank for cleanup. If I were loosing fish I would change my procedure, I'm not loosing fish. I could also write a short story on what the city of Chicago does to their water when & why.

There is also evidence of bacteria contained in municipal water supply systems that will convert chloramine to its components, chlorine & ammonia, then use the ammonia as a food source, the same as in your tank. This topic may be of interest; [URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/16.../Water-Changes/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/16.../Water-Changes/[/URL]

Now, if your bio filtration contains little or none of this bacteria, a large water change after your water supplier has jacked the chloramine could cause trouble, especially if you have not added enough dechlorinator to compensate. I know plenty of old school aquarists who do 20% water changes twice weekly, without treating anything. They are a throwback to the chlorine only days, which would gas out, causing no problems. They have no idea of the science behind what they are doing today, having chloramine added, all they know is if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I am really starting to beleive that there was a problem with the water.

I was using Topfin Tap Water Dechlorinator which removes Chlorine, Chloramine and Heavy Metals but I just purchased some Prime because I'm running Coppersafe in both tanks (copper is a heavy metal). So you suggest double dosing? Well, if it doesn't hurt I'm game. I phoned the Town Water Works last week but they said that they get the water from Toronto and they don't add anything extra. The friendly lady spoke with her supervisor to see if anything out of the ordinary happened around that time but they weren't aware of anything. She also said that Toronto doesn't add anything extra other than the usual chlorine.

I read through the report as suggested in the previous post (subsequent post to yours) but I'm not sure what to look for.

As originally posted I added the dechlor AFTER I filled the tank back up but only as per the instructions on the label. I would have also added bacteria supplement at the time. I was running my Rena XP3 without charcoal but had extra bio stars in its place. I removed these to a water filled container while using anti bacteria meds in order to preserve the bio material.

I Just finished a 20% water change but this time I had filled a 5 gallon pail with water and pre-treated several times and filled the tank from that. So far so good.

Unfortunately I'm terribly worried about my 3 adult Corys in the 2.5 hospital tank along with their 7 1" juveniles. I know it's over crowded but I do a 20% in the morning then again in the evening. I am also floating a knee-hi loaded with a handful of Ammo chips to keep the ammonia down.

The Cory with the rubbed nose doesn't look good. The water is a bit cloudy because of the meds but with a flashlight his gill cover seem to be a bit redish. But at least none of them are laying on their side or swimming weird like they did in the 60.

Sorry for these long posts but I figure the more information I give the more likely someone will come up with 'the cure'.

Thank you all so much for your advice.

 

[Cory_Dad]

I guess it depends on how much water you intend on changing. I only do 20% everyweek or sometimes every 2 weeks. So for a 60 gal, you'd change 12, which is less than 12 5-litre bottles. So 4 bottles at a time is only 3 trips from tap to tank. But yeah depends on how much you're changing in one go.


I have 2 brochis corys. Had them for over 5 years now, and one of them has just got a large wound on its nose from swimming into things when spooked. I put this down to the recent addition of some serpae tetras which seem to like the taste of their fins considerably, so they're moved elsewhere now!

Looks like it has some fungus growths around the wound now.

I took your advice to heart and today when I did a 20% I pre-treated the water with Prime.

Ya, those tetras can get nasty especially when they're in small numbers. In larger shoals they tend to keep each other too busy to bother other fish, at least that's how it is in my tank.

I hope I don't lose the adults. The males were awesome during breeding. They didn't take crap from anything and would chase the Zebra Danios and Neons if they got too close.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Tolak]

Toronto adds chloramine, your town will add more on top of that, refer to page 9 of 10 in that report, or page 19/28 of the pdf;

OTHERS: DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM (If you own the Distribution system /Plumbing )
These are treatment processes that occur in the Distribution System/Plumbing only.
Do you have disinfection in the
distribution system after
treatment?
Indicate with Yes or No
Disinfection Method(s)
e.g. Chlorination, Chloramination,
Ozonation, Chlorination with Chlorine
Dioxide, Ultraviolet Irradiation, or list any
other type
Yes
Chloramination


This is nothing unusual, the suburbs that get water from Chicago do the same thing. The further you get from the source, and the more municipalities it passes through, the more chlorine & chloramine gets added.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Toronto adds chloramine, your town will add more on top of that, refer to page 9 of 10 in that report, or page 19/28 of the pdf;

OTHERS: DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM (If you own the Distribution system /Plumbing )
These are treatment processes that occur in the Distribution System/Plumbing only.
Do you have disinfection in the
distribution system after
treatment?
Indicate with Yes or No
Disinfection Method(s)
e.g. Chlorination, Chloramination,
Ozonation, Chlorination with Chlorine
Dioxide, Ultraviolet Irradiation, or list any
other type
Yes
Chloramination


This is nothing unusual, the suburbs that get water from Chicago do the same thing. The further you get from the source, and the more municipalities it passes through, the more chlorine & chloramine gets added.

Very interesting. I read that to mean that Toronto (the distributor) does the chloramination.

But actually, that's neither here nor there. I knew there was chlorine and flouride in the water. Keith on ANOTHER FF suggested that maybe there was some other kind of disinfectant in the water that my dechlor didn't handle. But I guess having a crap load of chlorine in the water and UNDER TREATING with dechlor is just as bad.

I have learned so much in the last couple of weeks. And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks...

As an update, everyone is still alive.

Thank you.