Tropical Ponds?

[pinkdolphin_113]

Hi, I recently needed help about a killed platy (still don't know who killed him ) but I ended up getting better, and much more needed, advice about a knife fish which I found out could grow up to a metre!
My step-dad is a great plumber, which means all our tanks are pipped up so fresh clear-clean water flows into the tank and back out of the tank near the bottom under the gravel, which is where everything usually ends up. Anyway, he and my mum have been talking about a tropical pond in our back garden. He has worked out the heating that will be needed and the size which he is doing it (14-foot long, 8-foot long and 5 foot deep (not sure about the depth yet )). But he won't do it until he's sure it's gonna work...does anyone know if it will work properly?
I figure it's like putting lions in ur back garden in England.
If it will, what fish (other than the knife fish) would be compatible and make it look its best? Any ideas?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This is more a DIY/coldwater fish pond section thing, so you might find more info in those sections, although...
Where exactly do you live in the world?
How are you going about heating the pond?
When you say you have a pipe system that pumps fresh water into the tank and out, is the water dechlorinated or are you just using normal untreated tap water?

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

He's set it up in the basement. There's like this big black tank which is slightly heated. Normal tap water goes in there and at 7am every morning he puts this weekly cleaner thingy in which looks just like water. That is all mixed up and never stops making a noise lol. I'm sure he's just made it himself over the years. Anyway, the water comes out of there through copper pipes like through the walls and stuff I dunno its pretty complicated I just know the water comes from that big black tank.
I'm from England by the way. It's quite cold here so he wants to start building the pond soon.
The heating is going to start off with a little bit smaller black tank in the basement (which he already has for some reason) and its going to be heated from there. There is going to be about 2-3 200watt heaters I think, summat along those lines, I would ask him now just he's at work. The power supply is in the green shed and its gonna cost alot lol.

No wait! It's changed! There are some bottles on the walls next to the tank with pipes coming from the lid. One is blue(probs for white spot), one's clear(the cleaner stuff) and ones empty, dunno wot that ones for.
I think its set on an auto timer or summat. Or the bottles are level with the water so when the water level goes down a tiny, the liquids come out of the bottles. I dunno. The fish do well what ever he's doing. He's had a shoal of angelfish for 6 years or summat and they're huge!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I dont know much on DIY, so couldn't say much on the theory of the system, but i would say that 2-3 200watt heaters is waay too optimistic for heating such a huge pond, especially during the english winters- i would say that 2-3000watts is a more optomistic approach, although i could be wrong. Down where i live in england the ice can get to 5inchs thick on the ponds during winter.
The other issue you'd face with an indoor heating tub system is the chances of having vast temperature fluctuations in the pond and the tub as the water cycles around, and these aernt good for fish as their body temp and metabolism is controlled by the water around them, and temperature fluctuations can result in stress, sickness and even death. Not to mention condensation problems that may arise in the basement- if the paint on the walls isn't treated for moisture, you will experience mold and fugus problems, as well as rust issues in other parts of the room depending on what you have in there.
If your step-dad is putting untreated water into the tank at all, this will have a very negative effect on the fishs health as tap water contains chlorine and other toxic substances to kill off bacteria and deseases that may be bad for our consumption, which although are fine for us, play a much more detrimental/negative effect on the fish's well being and max life expectancy.
edit: sp

 

[dcj38]

Well a pond that big is ok but the depth is way to deep. You will have a build up of nitrates at the bottom of your pond if you cant get a good water flow running through. I recommend 2-3 feet minimum, unless you have a good water flow.
Ask your dad what kind of filtration system you guys are using?
What fish to you plan to keep in it?
Look at my pond In Florida. Have a good read of this: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=118812

 

[Durbkat]

I just looked at that topic dcj38 are you sure the pond is going to be deep and wide enough for oscars?

 

[andywg]

Nothing wrong with a large depth on a pond, just drain from a bottom plug like in Koi setups, or send some flow to the bottom.

But Toxis is right on the heaters. I use 2 300W on my 180 gallon. That hting is going to need its own central heating boiler to stop it going too cold in winter. And if it is outside (or in the main part of the house) you will have a huge problem with evaporation. Best thing is to put it away from the house and build a conservatory around it.

As previously mentioned, check out the coldwater section and koi forums for much better ideas on constructing large ponds.

 

[fishing4exotics]

Hi pinkdolphin 113, for stocking suggestions I would suggest the 3 Pengasius that you already own. Those things get huge! I would also go with arowanas ( arapaima, asian crossback or super red, leichardti ) and gars for top swimmers, African tigerfish, African pike, Widebar Datnoids, Dorado, Brycon, and Channa pleurophthalma for mid swimmers. For the bottom swimmers I would go with freshwater stingrays ( tiger, leopoldi, flower, and pearl ), P, endlicheri bicher, M. tigrinus, and Megalodoras Irwinni.

That would be an awesome collection!

 

[dcj38]

I just looked at that topic dcj38 are you sure the pond is going to be deep and wide enough for oscars?

well it looks like im going to put 2 oscars in there, a turtle, and a catfish probably. The actual length is 9 foot, and the width is about 5 foot, and its about 2 foot deep averaged out. I think this is plenty enough room for oscars!

 

[andywg]

Hi pinkdolphin 113, for stocking suggestions I would suggest the 3 Pengasius that you already own. Those things get huge! I would also go with arowanas ( arapaima, asian crossback or super red, leichardti ) and gars for top swimmers, African tigerfish, African pike, Widebar Datnoids, Dorado, Brycon, and Channa pleurophthalma for mid swimmers. For the bottom swimmers I would go with freshwater stingrays ( tiger, leopoldi, flower, and pearl ), P, endlicheri bicher, M. tigrinus, and Megalodoras Irwinni.

That would be an awesome collection!

I make the pond around 3,500 UK gallons. A fair size.

However the stocking you have suggested would end in tears. The snakeheads would be a nice snack for the tigrinus (which co-incidentally is now Brachyplatystoma tigrinus) as too a fair number of African Pike could be (if they didn't go psycho and destroy everything first). The rays too could be at risk from a 2 foot shovel nose. The Megalodorus (now M. unranoscopus) is an extremely slow grower and as such could be at risk from the far faster growing ZSN.

Not to mention the filtration a pond stocked that heavily would require.

 

[CFC]

Theres no chance of a tigrinus eating adult sized rays but African tiger fish and Dorado would be very risky additions which would most likely kill every thing else in the tank eventually.

 

[fishing4exotics]

Actually the tigrinus is Brachyplatystoma tigrinum not tigrinus, but I like the old name and not many people are that familiar with the new classification. I have had a dozen tigrinus ( 3" - 22" ) and none of them have eaten any of my 18" pleuros.

I have had Dorados and African Tigerfish ( ATF ), but never grew them out to any size worth mentioning. True the Dorados should be smaller than the ATF for them to get along. I do have a friend with a 900 gallon tank that he keeps an 18" ATF. Its tankmates are asian arowanas, 20" leopoldi breeding pair ( ATF does try to eat the pups ) 16"Channa lucia, 16" dovii breeding pair, a colony of midas cichlids, and a 13" dorado.

I also know a guy that keeps assorted Brycon and Dorado along with Tigrinus and Widebar Datnoids ( D. pulcher for those anal about latin names ).

Anything is possible given the right circumstances. You should have some personal experience with the species or know 2nd hand information before you say it can't be done . That you can't debate. Why not compose a list of your own like what is asked of the thread. No need to challenge other people's opinion.

 

[CFC]

Ive not had the pleasure of keeping Dorado yet but have had ATF before (Hydrocynus vittatus) before and was fairly impressed by their aggression when feeding even at under a foot long, those teeth are designed to work like a set of steak knives and do their job well, and of course the aggression of Dorado is legendary, not something i would want to risk keeping fish that cost a weeks wages or more with.

The short of it is this project is not possible in England without the building of an enclosure over the pond, an undertaking that will cost thousands of pounds even when just taking the materials into account and building it yourself, not to mention an outbuilding of that size would require planning permissions from the local authority. IF this project does happen then there are no end of combinations of large catfish, oddballs, cichlids and predators that could work out, personally i would go with as many peacock bass varieties as i could lay my hands on, a few of the medium sized pims (ones under 3 feet) a school of black arowana's (asians are getting too common over here these days now the prices have dropped) and basicly whatever compatable unusual fish i come across, since this pond is set to be 5 foot deep i wouldnt stock rays but if it were shallower then i would add 3 or 4 pairs .

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

Hey! Alot of messages there and I was just laid in bed wondering what advise we might have got...and there is alot!
The filtration in the tank in the basement is split up into 8 parts. I don't know what some of the parts are but there is one part, the 7th part I believe, which fully oxidises the water. The first part is just where the water input is and is where all the conditioner is added. The white spot liquid is only used every hour or something where as the conditioner adds about 20 drops every 5 minutes. There is alot of sponges in there he was telling me about, like 7 different kinds. It was all confusing! But it works and has done for almost 20 years.
Over the weekend he has asked for planning permission and what have you for the pond and, after the advice given , a new conservatory. After the last one he built turned into my sister's room, he got it blocked off and moved to the end of the garden lol so he was probably looking to build a new one anyway. I yet don't know how the water is going to be filtrated in the pond if all goes ahead but I'm guessing a strong filter will be needed.
I think my step-dad is again going to go for, what he believes, his own "rule" of fish . Over 35 years of experience with fish and all he can come up with is... a schooling fish, a "big" fish, a few small or one big bottom feeder and "on the wall fish".
I'm guessing for a pond with a powerful filter, neons or tiger barbs aren't going to be ideal for the schooling fish. Any ideas on a bigger schooling fish? I think thats what he's having problems with most lol. Something that won't get eaten. I liked the idea's of rays but they can't be imported into England can they?? The Tigrinus looks gorgeous. Where would that linger in a tank?

Oh yea, and the tank in the basement, it's wrapped in 2 inch thick padding all over it and the 'input' and 'output' pipes are changed every 2 months incase of rust.

 

[CFC]

Please let us know how he was able to ask for planning permission over the weekend when it was only mentioned at 9pm GMT last night? I find this very hard to believe since planning applications have to be submitted in writing with an architechs drawing to the council planning office and usually take a couple of weeks to be processed.

Good luck with the project and i look forward to seeing photo's when its built.