Tropical/cold Water Mix...

amyw2008

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Hi,

Was just led watching TV and wondering what to do with my tanks...

I would love a goldfish of some description but I was just wondering would goldfish be ok in a tropical tank? (about 24 degrees which is about room temp in my house)

Thanks :)

Ohhh is anyone from Bristol area going to the balloon fiest this weekend as well?
 
Tropical fish and goldfish shouldn't mix for a few reasons.

I doubt even 'if' your air temp is at 24C that a tank would retain this temp without a heater. So it would eventually be a bit cold for most true tropical species.

And any sub-tropical species are too small so will be eaten by goldfish.

Only fancy goldfish are suitable for fish tanks. And they can easy be outcompeted for food by any fish that are big enough to not be eaten by the goldfish.

Basically keep goldfish WITH other goldfish.
For fancys you're looking at 20gal for the first one followed by 10-15gal for each additional one.
And they should be kept in pairs as they are 'social' as fish go.
 
You *can* keep goldfish with tropical fish, but you need to be sensible.

As Curiosity101 says above, there is an issue with water temperature.* However, a great many tropical fish are actually subtropical fish, and will do much better at a relatively cool 18-22 degrees C that at the usual tropical temperature of 25 degrees C. Among these fish are danios, some of the Corydoras catfish, all Scleromystax catfish, variatus platies, and several barbs including rosy barbs and the green barb Barbus semifasciolatus, sometimes sold as Barbus schuberti.

Now, not all combinations work. Rosy barbs for example can be nippy, so they'd be a bad choice for use with fancy goldfish. Small danios are at risk of being eaten by big goldfish. You'd also need to watch water quality. Scleromystax barbatus for example is a stunning catfish that works great in big tanks with lots of water current, but if kept with goldfish, you'd want sufficient filtration that the goldfish don't overload the system.

Personally, I'd always recommend concentrating on keeping goldfish in decent sized groups of their own kind, with care being taken that compatible varieties were being kept. Standards (varieties with one tail, like comets and shubunkins) are best kept together and away from fancy goldfish. Only a few fancy goldfish (varieties with two tails) are sufficiently robust they mix well with standards, the fantail and the black moor being the obvious examples. Virtually all the other fancies are best kept in groups of their own variety: pompons, orandas, pearlscales, etc.

No goldfish aquarium should be smaller than 30 gallons, that being the minimum aquarium suitable for 2-3 adults. Any retailer telling you a smaller tank is viable is taking advantage of your ignorance. So in this regard, I agree strongly with Curiosity101 that goldfish deserve a fairly big tank. But in really big tanks with generous filtration rates (at least 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour) you could keep standard goldfish just as you would large barbs or large characins, mixing them with catfish, weather loaches, etc. as you saw fit. A 55 gallon tank for example could house 3-4 standard goldfish and a school of Scleromystax barbatus without too many problems.

Cheers, Neale

*Some fancy goldfish actually prefer warm water, and the more delicate fancy goldfish are certainly harmed by cold, especially freezing, conditions, which is why they can't be kept in ponds. On the other hand, goldfish have established themselves as "pest" fish in many tropical countries, so it's questionable whether tropical temperatures cause them harm directly. But a warm aquarium will speed up their metabolic rate while reducing the oxygen in the water, causing problems for both the fish and the filter bacteria. If there's a reason not to keep goldfish at tropical temperatures, it's likely something to do with this rather than heat exhaustion or similar.
 
Oops, slight typo in my original post.

I meant goldfish should be kept pairs or more. Just as nmonks said.

I would disagree with keeping most 'standard' goldfish in a home tank unless it is as a grow out tank or if it is big enough to comfortably house them.
All I am thinking is, most people, will not want to dedicate the tank space needed by a 'standard' goldfish. But I'm not trying to say it can't be done.

It's just easier (size wise), to stick to fancys.

Other than that, thanks for the mention nmonks, and I couldn't agree more with everything else said.
A very good little write-up. :)
 
Thanks for the help :)
I think I will leave the goldfish idea for now....
Any ideas on what medium size/colourful fish would go well with angels? (my angels are between 3" - 5" so anything that sort of size would be good)
 
I am going to the Fiesta! Although only for the night glow - I live in those Airpoint buildings in Bedminster and were having a BBQ on the roof to watch the day show. Hope the weather holds but I think there is fat chance of that!!

Have fun!

Ps we have a goldfish in with our Dannios and barbs, the tank is unheated. He wont be there forever but doesn’t get nipped at all and we always makes sure he gets some of the food at dinner time.
 
How cool :) its been raining here since about 11am (in Patchway) but hopefully we will go down and get stuck in the mud tonight...
Am ging to make Stu park in the Balloon Fiesta as I am only 5 weeks away from giving birth and I dont want to walk :)

I have a 2ft (60ish litre) tank that has 2 Angel fish in at the moment but they are going into my other tank so I wanted to maybe get a goldfish or 2 and something else but now im having second thoughts :rolleyes:
 
I agree strongly with this, and I usually recommend 'standards' be treated as pond fish. But, the reality is that some people will try to keep 'standards' in tanks. That given, I would at least suggest the tank be sufficiently big for them, 30 gallons upwards.

Cheers, Neale

I would disagree with keeping most 'standard' goldfish in a home tank unless it is as a grow out tank or if it is big enough to comfortably house them.
 
How cool :) its been raining here since about 11am (in Patchway) but hopefully we will go down and get stuck in the mud tonight...
Am ging to make Stu park in the Balloon Fiesta as I am only 5 weeks away from giving birth and I dont want to walk :)

I have a 2ft (60ish litre) tank that has 2 Angel fish in at the moment but they are going into my other tank so I wanted to maybe get a goldfish or 2 and something else but now im having second thoughts :rolleyes:


It said in the metro today that the weather this weekend will be nice so fingers crossed :) Good luck finding parking! If i was five weeks from having a baby i think would have your fella and his friends carry you around on a chair like an Egyptian pharaoh or something!


It seems most people in the know are against keeping fancy goldfish in with anything else. I bow to their greater knowledge but our temporary goldy in our 60L looks happy enough for now. We keep the water quality good and check on him regularly so im sure you would be fine if you were careful.
 
The issue with mixing standards and fancies is that fancies can't always swim or manoeuvre well enough to compete. Goldfish are greedy fish, as you know, and if the standards hog the food, the fancies will lose out because they swim more slowly. There are some fancies -- such as celestials -- that simply can't find food all that easily anyway, so can't compete all that well even with the more robust fancies, such as moors. Then there are those fancies -- such as bubble-eyes -- that are easily damaged by more aggressive or even more active fish.

Exceptionally, you find goldfish that throw their weight around, and in groups of two or three, the dominant fish becomes an all-out bully. Where all the fish are same variety this isn't too difficult to work around, but if the weaker fish are fancies, a super-dominant standard can be a real pest.

So you've got a whole bunch of variables to consider. Some fancies mix fine with standards, given sufficient space, the black moor in particular. But for the casual aquarist, the best all-around advice is don't mix them, and better yet, keep a single variety of fancy per system so that all the fish in that tank are competing on an equal footing.

Sixty litres is too small for goldfish in the long term, so you will need to upgrade eventually, likely within a year or so. I recommend 115 litres for the first 2-3 goldfish, and another 40 litres (at least) for each subsequent fish. As others have stated, fancies are better suited to indoor quarters than standards simply because they're smaller, 20 cm versus 30 cm when mature. But if you have a long enough tank, standards can do very well indoors. Just remember, you're housing a fish not much smaller than an oscar, and needs a similar amount of space.

Cheers, Neale

It seems most people in the know are against keeping fancy goldfish in with anything else. I bow to their greater knowledge but our temporary goldy in our 60L looks happy enough for now. We keep the water quality good and check on him regularly so im sure you would be fine if you were careful.
 

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