Total Newbie In Need Of Advice Please

[MizTeeque]

Hi there,

I am a complete and utter newbie to keeping any kind of fish.

My 7 yr old son decided he wanted a fish tank for his birthday in August, so off I went to my local 'fish' shop and asked advice, as to what I would need to get my son started.

I decided on a 17 litre beginner tank, that came with a bag of gravel and a filter. Set it up, left it a week (as advised by shop staff) then introduced 5 danios. Lovely!! they thrived. I was told that even though they are tropical fish, they can be kept in cold water tanks also so I have no heater as yet but the fish dont seem to mind at all.

Now my 5 yr old decides he wants a tank for his birthday, so off I go to the shop again and this time purchase a 14 litre beginner tank, again complete with a bag of gravel and a filter. Set it up as I did before, left it a week, introduced 3 guppies. They were all dead the next morning!!
Asked advice at the store and was told the same as for the danios, they are tropical but can stand cold water tanks, so purchased 3 more guppies and again they were all dead the following day.

So figured I would start again from scratch. Removed everything from the tank, cleaned the tank, gravel and filter, left it another week, then took 1 fish from the first tank and put it in the new tank for a few days on its own, it appeared to be doing fine so I purchased some more danios and guppies and introduced some of them to the new tank (the rest went in the old tank). Now the ones in the old tank are thriving and lively and eating fine, but the ones in the new tank, are lethargic, dont appear to feed well (not as vigorously as the ones in the old tank) and just seem to stay in one spot, they dont swim about much at all.
The danios sit on the bottom and the guppies sit at the top. I wondered if the filter was a bit strong for them as they appeared to be swimming against the current it was creating so I turned it down a bit, but this produced no change in their behaviour at all.

I have done nothing different with the new tank, to what I did with the old tank yet I fear we are going to lose yet more fish. Am I doing something wrong? Is there anything I am not doing that I should be?
I am planning on buying heaters for both tanks as xmas presents for my boys, should I get them now?

I should mention that they tanks are in different rooms, the old tank is in the lounge, bright and warm all day, whereas the new tank is in the childrens bedroom, which is warm all day but maybe not so bright.

Please if someone could give some proper expert advice I would be most grateful, as not only is it distressing for me and my son to keep losing fish, its also costing me a fortune!!

Thanks in advance
Tee

 

[arobinson1984]

Guppies require a heater, they should be kept in temperatures from 26-28 degree celcius which is slightly higher than a normal community tank temp. For most community tanks a recommended temp is around 24-25 depending on the species present in the tank.

I'd say you are in a fish-in cycle situation due to bad advise from your local fish store (lfs) which we see as a daily occurance on here. In a new tank, the filter isnt ready to cope with a fish load until beneficial bacteria has established which is called a 'cycle'

Many fish stores give bad advise, they normally tell you to leave the tank a week then add fish, this does absolutely nothing, you could leave the tank for a year and it would be no better than leaving it 1 day.

Have a read through the topics which are linked in my signature, they explain cycling in much more detail, take specific notice of the 'what is cycling' and the 'fish-in cycle' threads.

Dont be afraid to ask question, there are many very experienced members on this forum which are happy to help.

Rule number 1 of fishkeeping, do not listen to your lfs, unfortuanately about 95% of stores are just out to make money, full stop.

Andy

 

[onebto]

YEP 100% what arobinson1984 said

 

[MizTeeque]

Thanks for the advice. I have moved all the fish from the new tank into the old tank on the advice of a friend who has kept fish for eons and within minutes they all picked up and looked much livelier.
I will have a read through about cycling and start again with the new tank.
My friend says that the filter I have is no good either, so im gonna go get one the same as in the other tank and some heaters and hopefully by christmas we will have two fully functional tanks.

 

[arobinson1984]

If you have 2 tanks, ideally with the new one you should do a fishless cycle seeing as youve moved the fish to the established tank.

Have a read of the fishless cycle thread in my signature, its much easier than a fish-in cycle both for you and your fish.

If your other tank is established then you will be able to give your new tank a kick start. When you get your new filter, take about a third of the media/sponge from your established filter and put it into the new one. Dont use more than a third and your established tank should be ok, you can replace the third you've removed from the established filter with a bit of new media.

With a fishless cycle you will need household ammonia and a good liquid test kit. The third of the mature media will help kickstart the new filters cycle as it will contain some of the crucial bacteria to start with.

Read the fishless cycle guide, the add and wait method is probably the easiest and with mature media may only take 1-3 weeks whereas a normal cycle usually takes 4-8 weeks.

Just be careful and keep an eye on your old tanks water stats now that you have added more fish to it, it may take the filter a few days to catch up so check it regularly and perform water changes if the ammonia or nitrite levels rise above 0.25ppm

Andy

 

[Curiosity101]

Also just a note but the tank you have isn't big enough for danios.
They will survive in there, but danios are extremely active fish. Think of them as being miniature cheetahs of the fish world. For this reason a high current really wouldn't be a bad thing.

Also, the reason your fish perked up when moved across is because your old tank has no ammonia or nitrites in it. (For the reasons explained by arobinson).
Ammonia is poisonous to fish as it physically burns the gills, this will have happened to your original danios and will lead to a shorter lifespan (often fish that are meant to live for two years last for more like 6months).
It's not really reversible, but some fish are able to cope to a greater extent than others.
Nitrites are also toxic, but I think they work on the nervous system of the fish.

So whereas a fish dying of ammonia would become lethargic and then start gasping near to the end of it's life. A fish affected by Nitrite poisoning tends to twitch/dart and end up laying on the bottom of the tank.

Have you considered a 'combined' tank for the boys? Something like a 60l is a very managable size and much better for the fish.
Or for tanks of 17-21 litres there is a fish called a 'betta' or 'siamese fighter'. You could get each of the boys a male of their own, they come in practically every colour you can think of, and have lots of different tail types.

I know you may not be at all interested in changing stocking, but I thought I'd mention a few options.

 

[arobinson1984]

Totally agree with curiousity, I didnt spot before how small the tanks were.

Danios are one of the most active fish you will find and really need a lot bigger tank so they can 'stretch their legs' so to speak. They require alot of swimming space.

Many websites recommend a minimum of 20 gal (75L) for them, but I have 4 in my 33 gal (125L) tank and I wouldnt consider putting them in anything smaller.

As curiosity said, A nice single male betta would be great in them tanks.

Andy

 

[fishnovice]

If you do get a male betta for each tank, you will have to rehome the guppies as bettas will very likely attack them, Female bettas might be less agressive though not so showy, but I've never kept betta myself so I'm only repeating what I've heard

 

[Curiosity101]

Problem with females is that you need to keep a group of 4 or more to allow a pecking order to form and avoid un neccesary agression. Eg. If you got 2 then one female would bully the other one.
If you get 4 then the agression is spread out.

However 4 would be far too many for a 17l or 20l tank.