Thoughts on this stocking list for a 180g

[Varacanth]

Currently planning a 180g with a 40g sump and was wondering if this stocking list would work?
4 Pearl or 3 Moonlight Gourami
15 Congo Tetra
1 Blue Phantom Pleco
8 Angelfish
8 Redhead Tapajos Eartheaters
1 Dwarf Pike Cichlid (Either Regani or Compressiceps)
1 T-bar Cichlid

My water is around 7.2 ph and 10.38 dh.

Also thinking about having a modified cabinet that would allow the refugium in the sump to double as a secondary display tank for either a crayfish or some shrimp.

 

[Byron]

If you decide on angelfish, other cichlids and gourami are not advisable. The gourami (either species or both could work here, with more of their species) but no cichlids. Or a group of the Geophagus "redhead" as the centrepiece.

The angelfish, Geophagus, and the two gourami species are quiet, sedate fish; boisterous tankmates will unsettle them. Some consider the Congo Tetra boisterous; my three times with a shoal of this beautiful tetra does not really bear this out, though the periodic "relay race" that two (sometimes three) males like to hold does get close to boisterousness.

I would not include a Crenicichla compressiceps with any of these fish, it just doesn't fit in. The Congos would most likely be seen as food as well.

 

[Varacanth]

I would not include a Crenicichla compressiceps with any of these fish, it just doesn't fit in. The Congos would most likely be seen as food as well.

Does this apply to regani too?

 

[Byron]

Does this apply to regani too?

Sorry, missed that. I've no direct experience with this species, but the ciichlid sites mention it is less aggressive, even "gentle" (whatever such a subjective term might actually mean for a cichlid!). My concern would be its activity level and the effect of that on the sedate fish. Even without any physical contact, active fish can spook sedate fish and cause considerable stress which weakens them, leading to other problems they would otherwise manage to deal with more effectively.

 

[PlasticGalaxy]

Like Byron has said, I wouldn't mix angelfish and gourami. From my experience, pearl gourami can be very docile and calm, but can lunge at and harass smaller fish. Congo tetras can also be nippy and are pretty skittish from what I've seen, which may put the gourami at unease.

A blue phantom pleco is a nice size for sure. Plecos always tend to be hardy and tough, though they can become skittish with sudden movements, so approaching your tank gently and without moving too fast would be a good idea if you get one -- they can throw up plants, substrate and even decorations and their smaller tankmates if startled (given that they're big enough). Plecos go with pretty much anything to be fair, so as long as your tank is big enough, I'd say go for it. Be warned that all plecos are huge poop machines, and are very greedy, so proceed with caution if you like your tank clean!

If you go for gourami, that amount is perfect. They should be in groups of four or more, with a male to female ratio of 1 male to 2-3 females. These fish aren't necessarily aggressive, but I've seen them lunging at and taunting my corydoras in my community tank, and I've also heard that they can become aggressive when spawning.

Hope this is helpful, sorry if it's all a little scattered.

 

[Varacanth]

If I were to drop the gourami, would the angels, tetra and geophagus work if the tank was heavily planted to break sightlines?

 

[Byron]

If I were to drop the gourami, would the angels, tetra and geophagus work if the tank was heavily planted to break sightlines?

There is a belief among some that sight lines are the issue, but this is false. Fish communicate by sight, obviously, but they also communicate via pheromones and allomones, chemical signals. The largest home aquarium will easily become the territory of a cichlid, or a gourami, depending upon species. They can sense the "intruders" and they can bully the weaker intruders without any physical interaction.

 

[Varacanth]

Would a severum work as a replacement for the angels? If not what would you suggest alongside the geos to fill the upper water column?

 

[Wills]

Personally I’d be ok with a group of angels and a group of geos especially with a smaller species like red heads. You could go for the smaller Leopoldo angels too.

Equally the severum would be a good choice with the geophagus I had this combo in a 135g for many years and it worked great just don’t try and add too many more cichlids in there and concerntrate on the community around them.

 

[Byron]

If a group of Geophagus are selected, I would then consider the various shoaling species of medium/larger characins for the upper levels, and catfish such as Corydoras (unless you want to breed the cihclids).

Wills has entered this thread and he has considerably more cichlid experience than I do. I am not changing my premise of one cichlid per tank, but now you have more to think about.

 

[Varacanth]

Personally I’d be ok with a group of angels and a group of geos especially with a smaller species like red heads. You could go for the smaller Leopoldo angels too.

Equally the severum would be a good choice with the geophagus I had this combo in a 135g for many years and it worked great just don’t try and add too many more cichlids in there and concerntrate on the community around them.

I think I may actually be learning more towards the severum now. It seems like more of a personable fish, would it work with the Congo's too?

 

[Byron]

Something else occurred to me after I posted #10, so I will throw it out for what its worth.

With maybe a very few exceptions (can't think of any at the moment), species of neotropic cichlids do not occur together in the same geographic habitat. When one considers the inherent traits of all cichlids, this should give one food for thought. We cannot "communicate" with our fish, so it is impossible to know what effect having two different species of cichlid, each with their inherent territorial instinct, may have on the fish long-term. In other words, it is completely unnatural. Does this matter? I think it does, because just being in the same water can cause stress to a fish.

Adding various "dither" fish in with a group of cichlids is "natural," as the cichlids encounter this in their respective habitats. The species may be different, but the point is, they are not other cichlids.

A very different situation presents itself with African rift lake cichlids, obviously, but we are here considering the neotropic species.

 

[Varacanth]

So I've been doing a little more research and viewing various tanks and I think I've settled on a South and Central American cichlid tank (Sorry byron, I know you don't like mixing cichlids).
I'm thinking something like this:
1 Oscar
1 Jack Dempsey
1 Female Convict
1 Female Green Severum
1 Female T-bar
6 Geophagus sp. Red Head Tapajos
6 Striped Silver Dollars

Could this work out in a tank with a footprint of 6x2? I'm hoping by sticking to singles for most of them I can reduce aggression?

 

[Wills]

11 big Cichlids is too many in even a 180. Especially in the long term. I wouldnt recommend mixing south and central americans, its a different kind of aggression and they deal with being confined in different ways. They also have different water requirements with the Souths prefering softer water and Centrals prefering harder water. Depending on your water type it likely means one group will always do better than the other in terms of health and growth. You also have some temperature conflicts too with centrals prefering slighly cooler water to souths, if fish are kept in water too cool or too warm for too long you will reduce their lifespan and with fish like cichlids that are capeable of living 10-15 years its important to get right.

When ever we see people mixing souths and centrals here it always ends badly (myself included). Depending on your type of water I'd go for either;

If you have softer water
1 Oscar
1 Female Green Severum
6 Geophagus sp. Red Head Tapajos
6 Striped Silver Dollars

I think you would have space to add some other non cichlid species in there too like catfish, headstanders or other schooling fish maybe Columbian Tetras or Silver Hatchet Fish? I'd get the Oscar last preferably in a couple of months time once the other fish have had size to pack some size on otherwise there is a big chance the other fish will get eaten... happened recently to an other member.

or if you have harder water

1 Jack Dempsey (I'd probably go for a female too as Centrals cross breed very easy - I'd also go for a EBJD rather than a regular but thats personal preference)
1 Female Convict
1 Female T-bar (could be a bit close to the convict so you could get some targetted aggression)

You'd probably be ok adding 2-3 other female cichlids which in Centrals is pretty cool as some of the girls look better than boys with things like Nicaraguans, Salvini being top of my list.

Building a central american biotope like you can with the Souths is difficult because not much else than the cichlids and live bearers are regularly imported. But on harder water there are other options, barbs or rainbow fish are viable replacements for the Silver Dollars and for some other levels of activity Synodontis Catfish would work nicely too - robust enough to live with them, interesting patterns and similar water requirements.

Got to be honest I've been dreaming of the central tank I've described for a while now so I am slightly biased towards that one But it depends on how hard your tap water is.

Wills

 

[Varacanth]

Thats a very tough one to pick between as I really like the JD and Geo's aha. Would a blue acara fit into the SA tank? My water is 7.2 ph and 10.38 dh, would this be too hard for SA's?