The Start Orf A New Begining!

[waterdrop]

Oh Boy! He did it! Mission accomplished. Tank fishless cycled before the Cuba trip!

Now we all have to pitch in and help him figure out how to not "lose it" while gone!

What are the options for having the tank looked after, Tuppers??

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tuppers]

Well I could see if my uncle will come and either add ammonia or feed some fish but then I would rather he added ammonia as I would want to keep a close eye on the fish for a couple of weeks really!! Was thinking about a 90% water change tomorrow then checking the readings over the next week and then getting him to come every day to add 5ml to the tank, cant see it being that hard for him!!

What do you guys think? Or should I get some fish and get him to feed them every other day or three days or so?

leads me onto my question about what to stock this tank with? Would love to have tetra's with shrimp so anyone for any suggestions?

Cheers

Tuppers

 

[Miss Wiggle]

remind us what date your going on holiday and how long for?

really you could go with either choice, each has some risk but i would go with adding the ammonia because there's no risk to living creatures.

if you add fish and the cycle goes wrong, he overfeeds them or something like that then it could quite easily go tits up and without you there to keep an eye on things you could loose fish. of course if your uncle knows a bit about fish and is capable of the odd water change and feeding correctly then there's no reason it can't work.

if you don't add fish and he adds ammonia then there's a chance he might overdose on it or the pH might crash and the whole cycle could knacker up. But if this knackers up then yes it would be frustrating that you're back to square one after all your hard work, but at least no fish would have been harmed.

 

[Tuppers]

We are flying on 21/11/08 for two getting back 06/12/08 then I am going away for two more weeks with work now! On an advanced driving course!! So I guess the fish will have to wait! I am itching to get them!!

I think all in all I will stick with my incle adding the ammonia!!!! and then the missus ading it!! then near to christmas I will add some fish!! The filter should be well cycled with ammonia by then!!

I noticed that WD mentioned 6 month as a time to wait before adding noens? from what date is this? In effect have I completed a month already? or is it from the day I add the fish? Also with me adding 5ml and getting 8ppm is this too high? dont want the bacteria dieing off when fish are added and they dont produce enough waste to feed them all!!!

Thanks for the help!!

 

[waterdrop]

I think continuing with the ammonia is the same choice I would make, hard choice, but that seems best. I would have a night when its relaxed to explain the whole bit to him so you can emphasize hopefully that its important and not just an empty tank of water (without explanation, it could be hard for somebody to realize how hard you've worked to raise the bacteria.)

I'd try to plan a good gravel clean and water change if possible during the middle transition after you are back from vacation but before you go on the work trip.

Yeah, you might really end up having a pretty "aged" tank when you start and might go ahead and risk it with cardinals (or neons, although the cards might be very slightly hardier.) About the understocking question.. you shouldn't worry about this. Its part of the intent of the big 5ppm colony level that an initial die-off is expected at stocking time. This is because its much better this way 'round than the other! It wouldn't work to have an undersized colony, it would be impossible pretty much to have a "matched size" colony and so, in fact, its the only choice to have an oversized colony that then dies off a little at the initial hardy stocking. The truth is that despite the filter now being capable, if it were pressed, to keep ammonia and nitrite at zero with even an overstocking, the filter will keep getting tougher and more robust for a full 6 months to a year beyond when you "finish cycling." From this point forward the colonies will be more and more capable of quickly bouncing up to whatever new additional stocking you decide to add (at least up to whatever max stocking it can handle, which is basically an unknown that you don't want to ever find out!) I added a school on neons this past weekend without a blip from my filter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i wouldn't have them top it up to 8ppm every day, remember the more nitrification going on the more the pH will be driven down, the higher they top it up the more chance there is of a pH crash and without you around to monitor it you could have a problem. i would just get them to top it up to 2/3ppm every day, when you get back then you can raise it back to 5 and at most you'd only have a day or two before it can handle that level again.

 

[waterdrop]

i wouldn't have them top it up to 8ppm every day, remember the more nitrification going on the more the pH will be driven down, the higher they top it up the more chance there is of a pH crash and without you around to monitor it you could have a problem. i would just get them to top it up to 2/3ppm every day, when you get back then you can raise it back to 5 and at most you'd only have a day or two before it can handle that level again.

Absolutely agree! Forgot to address that - MW's comment that you don't want more nitrification than you need is excellent and there is another reason for not wanting things to get up to 8ppm if we remember.. in one of Hovanec's papers he says that at 8ppm there is another species of bacteria that begins to take over - its the wrong species and will die off when the ammonia level comes back down but it doesn't help the colonies we want to be robust.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tuppers]

On heeding that advice I will stick to 2.5 ml per day at the same time every day then! Hopefully by the time I get back everything is cool!! We shall see! i think I will do a large water change the day before we go and add 3-4 teaspoons of baking soda to help keep the PH high while I am away!! This week I am going to see how it goes without any to see if I can keep a stable PH without it!!

Cheers

Tuppers

 

[Tuppers]

Day 29: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L - 12 Hour test

Tests this morning for 12 hour test @ 09:30 hrs

Temp 29.0C
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.50
Nitrate 10-20
dKH not tested this morning but will sort this later

Well it appears something has gone wrong after doing a 90% water change!! I am sorry but I dont have any results from yesterday I was a little rushed and there wasn't really any time!! So I guess I will have to add some baking soda to get the PH up again and carry on from there!! I only added 2.5ml last night at 19:00 hrs so we sahll see how long it atkes for the nitrites to disappear!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't panic, you will occasionally get a little blip, just see if it rectifies itself over the next 24 hrs before you start to worry if somethings gone wrong.

 

[Tuppers]

I hope so Miss Wiggle! the Nitrite reading is 0 now and that was at 12:00 so we shall see how we get on later and tomorrow!!

 

[rabbut]

I tend to find that waterchanges lead to blips like that, and it is entirely normal IME You have just found why we advise you do a weeks "proving" before adding fish. Blips at the end of the cycle are common, and most people would prefur them to occur while there are no fish in. Let it be and it will sort itself out again soon enough

 

[Tuppers]

Day 30: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L - 12 & 24 Hour tests

Tests this morning for 12 hour test @ 08:00 hrs

Temp 29.5C
PH 7.4
Ammonia 0..25-0.50
Nitrite 5.0
Nitrate 40+ (poss a little more)
dKH not tested

Tests last night for 24 hour test @ 19:00 hrs

Temp 29.5C
PH 7.4
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 10-20
dKH not tested

Added 2.5ml to tank and 1 hour later this raised ammonia to 4.0ppm and a little more I would say! Well I guess it wasnt a rosy as first thought but I will keep plodding along!! Should I add some bi-carb or leave it at the minute to see how we go? I will test the dKH later to see if it will be required.

 

[rabbut]

I'd test the KH and decide from there. If the pH has crashed in the past, it will again, so it will likely be needed

That waterchange seems to have slowed processing down a bit But still, better it re-stabilised without fish in than you doing the first waterchange since cycle completion and stocking, only to go into a mini-cycle with fish

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Tuppers]

Hi well I tested the ammonia and nitrite @ 14:00 got:

Ammonia 0.00
Nitrite 5.00

So hopefully the ammonia has stopped producing nitrites and they are now being munched!! We shall see later tonight for the 24 hour test!!

Cheers and I will get that KH tested!!