Freshyfishy
Fish Fanatic
They wont shoal with a brand new group, as they are already shoaling with this group, it will just add extra stress on the tank.. I don't agree with the popular opinion on here.
Thank you all!
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MiracleTank
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xxEMOxLIZZARDxx
Fish Crazy
I feel like someone commented not to keep frogs and fish together. Just because you've have them for four years doesn't mean they are thriving or enjoying life with their faster tank mates.
Adding more of the same species is rarely a problem for a schoaling species like most tetra. They'll choose their own species every time, and only swim with others if they have no other options. The fish don't know that they're safely in captivity with no predators. Every instinct they have as a result of centuries of evolution screams "safety in numbers, stick closely with my species, especially when there's danger". In the wild they live in groups of thousands, so yes, they feel safer with larger schools.
Having said that, @MiracleTank does have a beautiful, clearly carefully planned aquarium where all looks well and healthy, and there are times when we don't want to bump the numbers in a school for whatever reason, and people are allowed to make their own choices for their own tanks. Some people say don't keep aquatic frogs in the same tank as fish, but others do and have done, and @MiracleTank 's frogs are clearly not starving, so she's doing what works for her in her tank.
Right now I have one cardinal, one black neon and three glowlight tetra. I have them because I inherited the tank from my dad, these guys are the last, visibly elderly survivors from larger schools he had, and I don't intend to keep any of those species myself, since I'm in a hardwater area. They're just living out their days in my tank rather than euthanising them or something, and they tend to huddle together if spooked. But I have no doubt that if I added a school of cardinals, my single cardinal would join that school, wouldn't choose to hang with the glowlights and black neon.
That statement is untrue and makes no sense at all.
I think we have to step back and look at what shoaling is. We don't see a lot of it in our tanks, because it is a defence mechanism. Most of the time, we see tetras dispersed and feeding, rather than running together to confuse a predator. Yesterday, I added some juvenile cardinals to a 75g that already has a good number, including the parents of the ones I added. The juvies, who have only ever seen each other and some young Ancistrus, ran for the peace lily roots when they entered the big tank. Then they cautiously swam down to where the larger cardinals were, and were ignored.
I have three male Hyphessobrycon negodagua (because I could only get three and was hoping for at least one female so I could expand the group), and they own the tank. One began to mildly harass a small cardinal, and shoaling happened. The wee fish must have released chemical distress signals (it was never in real danger, but was scared) and the loose group of cardinals suddenly became a shoal. It wasn't for long, but the troublemaker tetra wandered off. This morning, the small cardinals are acting just like the big ones, spread out, keeping contact but very relaxed.
They make sure they can see each other, and react to colour and visual signals. They remain aware of where each other is at all time. I guess if you keep an eye on Fred, and he gets eaten....
There are two things I'm not sure I buy here. One is how we use shoaling. I think these fish are not individuals as we like to think of them. They're social animals that depend on each other for security. Too few, and they're insecure. 4? 6? 10? There are credible studies that say the more the merrier. But I have uncomfortable questions whether we're using numbers like 10 for our convenience.
With glo-fish, a good part of their communication system has been destroyed. We've all seen how the use of colour is controlled by fish, and signals pass between them through their "chromatophores". With glo-fish, we've gutted that communication method by blotting out their colours They can still communicate chemically, but to a point, we have cut their tongues out. So how does having a group matter? Their ability to communicate has to be affected by the overlay of 'pretty' colours gene spliced into them.
I also don't think mixed species social groups are a problem. They form in nature all the time. They aren't always predictable, but when they do work with groups, you can't deny what you see. I've had groups of 20 and 10+ tetras of different species form identifiable groups together. I've even kept pygmy Corys and the lookalike tetras that shoal with them. I think we're thinking a bit rigidly here, even if the fundamental idea that small fish aren't individuals is sound.
No answers, just things maybe worth considering if people get into it.
I have three male Hyphessobrycon negodagua (because I could only get three and was hoping for at least one female so I could expand the group), and they own the tank. One began to mildly harass a small cardinal, and shoaling happened. The wee fish must have released chemical distress signals (it was never in real danger, but was scared) and the loose group of cardinals suddenly became a shoal. It wasn't for long, but the troublemaker tetra wandered off. This morning, the small cardinals are acting just like the big ones, spread out, keeping contact but very relaxed.
They make sure they can see each other, and react to colour and visual signals. They remain aware of where each other is at all time. I guess if you keep an eye on Fred, and he gets eaten....
There are two things I'm not sure I buy here. One is how we use shoaling. I think these fish are not individuals as we like to think of them. They're social animals that depend on each other for security. Too few, and they're insecure. 4? 6? 10? There are credible studies that say the more the merrier. But I have uncomfortable questions whether we're using numbers like 10 for our convenience.
With glo-fish, a good part of their communication system has been destroyed. We've all seen how the use of colour is controlled by fish, and signals pass between them through their "chromatophores". With glo-fish, we've gutted that communication method by blotting out their colours They can still communicate chemically, but to a point, we have cut their tongues out. So how does having a group matter? Their ability to communicate has to be affected by the overlay of 'pretty' colours gene spliced into them.
I also don't think mixed species social groups are a problem. They form in nature all the time. They aren't always predictable, but when they do work with groups, you can't deny what you see. I've had groups of 20 and 10+ tetras of different species form identifiable groups together. I've even kept pygmy Corys and the lookalike tetras that shoal with them. I think we're thinking a bit rigidly here, even if the fundamental idea that small fish aren't individuals is sound.
No answers, just things maybe worth considering if people get into it.
Since the OP has deleted many of his posts so the thread is now impossible to make sense of, I have locked it.
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