Tetra Safestart

Oh how I don't wanna say this. :lol: The stupid stuff worked. In TWO tanks. I've got the two 5.5 gallons set up for a betta each, and one was brand new so was in the middle of a cycle (ammonia had gone up a bit, then down [but never to 0], and nitrite was up a bit - remember, only 1 fish, so nothing went super high). The other tank was new but I moved over a small bit of what I could salvage of the stupid Eclipse's filter floss (from the cartridge). So there was a BIT of "mature" media there. But it was still cycling - ammonia about .25 and nitrite about that or a TAD higher.

I added the SafeStart to the 1st tank mentioned above first. I added it in the evening. By morning, nitrite was 0. Ammonia was still there - but barely. Just SLIGHTLY discoloring the test, but no where near the light green of the .25 result. Just slightly tinged green if you kwim - the color that makes you look at it 5000 times trying to decide if it's green-tinged or not. Ammonia has now dropped to definitely yellow (but not as pale as it is when you first shake it). I waited a couple days, then added the rest of the bottle to the second tank. (I used half a bottle for each tank - it says to use the whole thing, but it says use the whole thing for up to 75 gallons. These are small 5.5 gallon tanks - I figured half a bottle was fine for each, plus I didn't expect it to work ANYhow.) The ammonia and nitrites were (before adding) JUST under .25 - just enough to make me try to decide whether a small water change was in order. I decided not to do the water change, but to dump the rest of the bottle in and see if the other tank was a fluke or just great timing (maybe the tank was right at the end of its cycle or something ANYhow and it was a big ol' coincidence). Poured it in in the morning. Tested at night, and as with the first tank, nitrites were now 0 and ammonia was absolutely negligible (no green, just a medium yellow - though not as pale as when first put in).

I don't get it. I'm really, really surprised. (Happy!, but surprised.) The only thing I can say is that my friend bought it from a shop that kept it refrigerated, and she says they told her that they request it be shipped the same way TO them. She said they even gave her an ice pack for the trip home to keep it cold. (85-90F here lately.) I dunno. Perhaps it's a fluke, and you can bet I'll be testing 1-2x daily for the next week or more, but thought I'd let you know how this one APPEARS to have turned out. :huh:

I still don't trust it, and will be doing mature media in the 55 gallon. I think most of the time it doesn't work, and I can't see how it possibly CAN work if bought off a shelf.

Dunno!
The problem here is that you just haven't been around long enough to have followed all the history of this. It was still being kicked around a lot in "New to the Hobby" in 2007 and 2008 but its worked its way out of our discussions of late. In 2008 it was very common when helping beginners with fishless cycling to have to explain that yes, there was a difference between the different "bottled bacteria" products in that there were two "Bio-Spira" and "Bactinettes" (probably spelling that wrong) that had a higher chance of working and working correctly. These were "refridgerated and refridgerated all the way from production to you" type products, trying to keep a significant percentage of the bacteria in the product alive during all the transport and storage. The rough story (I'm rushing it) is that these products (at least the biospira) came out of research done by Timothy Hovanec (one and same the scientist whose published papers we water nerds like to read) while he was getting his PhD and was paid for my MarineLand. Afterwards both Tim and MarineLand carried away the bits and pieces of knowledge about Tim's newly discovered Nitrospira speces that he had discovered were the true "N-Bacs." Time went by and the Bio-Spira and Bactinettes products died out but MarineLand's parent company acquired Tetra and the TetraSafe product came out of the MarineLand info, its supposedly the rightful successor to the good BioSpira/Bactinette stuff. Meanwhile Tim started Dr.Tims and produced it as DrTims One and Only out near Los Angeles.

Now the thing with BioSpira and Bactinettes was that IF you lucked into a distributor/retailer pathway where the folks really cared (a big IF) enough to keep it stored and transported frozen then you might actually recieve a little frozen packet that had live nitrospira in it and really worked! Only some people had good distributors/retailers like that and it created a love/hate discussion fuss on many, many tropical fish hobby sites. When getting these things kind of died out, the discussions died down. Now its slowly coming back. Its always been a very hit or miss type thing because, as you can imagine, in the back rooms of these distributors and retailers there are just way too many employees who couldn't give a d#!@mn whether that box over there sat on a hot loading dock for a couple hours or not! Anyway I suspect what you got was one of the rare "cold ones" that really was the "real thing."

~~waterdrop~~
 
Yup, no, I do actually know that history (spend way too much time reading on here, learning and absorbing). That's why I said there at the end that the only thing I can say is that I got a refrigerated one bought from a place that says they received it refrigerated. Also why I said I don't see how it could possibly work when bought right off a shelf (as opposed to refrigerated). My little attempt at letting other newbies like me know not to put a lot of hope/faith into bottled bacteria.
 
Bear in mind also, waterlily, that you only had one fish in each tank. IIRC, Tetra say you can use Safestart AND stock your tank on the first day which, IMO, would result in very high Ammonia and Nitrite readings (which is what PFK found when they tested it to the instructions on the bottle), so basically no different from a normal 'fish-in' cycle. That's what really annoyed me about the Safestart.
 
Yup vinylman, I know - incredibly small bioload. I can only say that on the 2 tanks I used it on, with readings (albeit, low - about .25) of ammonia and nitrite, both were 0 by the next day and remain so. <shrug> Again - I wouldn't trust this stuff off the shelf, no way. And I sure wouldn't fully stock a tank and expect it would work the same way. I can only say that with it having been refrigerated throughout its life (like the old bio-spira) and used on a already-in-cycle tank with just one fish, it worked. More than that I wouldn't trust. <shrug>
 
I have to say, this is the thread I have thought back to a number of times and even directed somebody to, with the thought that perhaps a new time period is happening like the last one where people were using the biospira/bactinettes a fair amount and we were getting a sense of some sort of success rate above maybe 10% but below about 50% from what I remember. Anyway, my thought I keep having is that perhaps because there are so many UK hobbyists, giving a bit higher liklihood, along with a bit tighter proximity, that it would be kind of fun if a few new cyclers came along who were within driving distance of Winterlily's particular LFS (the one who maintains the "refridgerator connection") and perhaps we'd get a little sampling of feedback. I've also be watching to see if we happen to see any flurry of feedback over here in the USA from the "one and only" sister product, but I haven't run across any and certainly haven't even seen mention of any TFFers trying it.

~~waterdrop~~
 
<shrug> When I set up my 3 other small tanks (also 5.5g for male bettas), I will use it again (if I can afford it - it's absolutely dear) and let you know if I had the same results or not - for whatever that's worth.
 
ill be starting a fishless cycle in a week and im tempted to use this safestart instead of mature media to try and get the cycle over and done with in under 6 weeks.Mature media is not really possible and im not adding fish until its fully cycled
 
Thing is, I really do believe that for it to have a hope of working, it needs to have been kept refrigerated during its entire life. Since you're doing fishless ANYhow, doesn't seem like there would be much harm in trying a bottle - but only if you can get it from somewhere that got it refrigerated and kept it that way.
 
just to bring this topic back to the fore..

My EXPERIENCE (not many people who post in here actually have that) of this product is that from the day i added fish (10 days after beggining dosing with liquid ammonia,4 days after first adding a bottle of safestart,and half an hour after doing a large water change to rid the tank of the ammonia,nitrite and nitrate that the fishless cycle was creating) to this very day, there has been 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in my tank

Safestart,according to the packaging, DOES NOT NEED TO BE CHILLED, it says it is shelf stable at room temp for up to 12 months
 
I have a bottle of ammonia, a spare heater, filter and tank.

I get 20% off the non-refrigerated safestart at work.

Off to set the tank up now, lets see what happens.
 
I am also very interested to hear the results!

It's one of those items for sale I just can't comprehend. You'd hope that they wouldn't sell something that's completely useless- but then again, it's a big company who wants to make money.
 
25L is now up and running with heater set to 30*C and roughly 1.25 ml of ammonia solution (bringing ammonia concentration to roughly 4.8ppm). Nitrites are 0ppm out of tap and nitrate test shows 5ppm in the water already.

I would test for ammonia, but just realised my ammonia kit is out of date (been that long since I've bothered with it :D). So I'll pick one up along with the Safestart tomorrow, if funds permit (need to pay for a 5'x2'x2' this week and I've not been great at saving so far... :fun:). If funds don't permit I'll just test at work.

P1090634Large.jpg
 
Well, no clue about whether it truly needs to be refrigerated or not (despite what the packaging says) as the old bio-spira did, but, I can say that this stuff DOES work (again, I will add that MY experience with it is with bottles that have refrigerated throughout their life - I have not yet ever used the non-refrigerated stuff). I have now set up 2 more 5.5 gallon tanks, each housing a male betta, and a 5.5 gallon temporarily housing 4 very small goldfish babies (estimated to be about 2 months old) as a grow-out tank. All brand new with brand new filters and brand new media. No used media seeding anything. Due to complete and total inability to find ammonia without surfactants in it, I was gearing up for yet another fish-in cycle on each tank. Added this stuff to each the first day, and have not, in over a month of them running, ever had a reading above 0 for ammonia or nitrites. Ever once. Now, the bio load is very low in the betta tanks, yes, but it's sure not in the goldfish tank. Messy messy fish who stress a bio filter to the max.

Now, for whatever it's worth, I used an entire BIG bottle (the one for tanks up to 75 gallons) in each of the tanks. No idea if that was overkill, but it doesn't matter. It works. I can now say that I have used it on five tanks, and on every one of them, it worked. Kills me that my one betta went through the fish-in cycle hell he did with the high ammonia then really high nitrites and I went through all *I* did (when those nitrites were high, I was changing like 85% of the water 5-6 times a day to keep it at safe levels) to cycle that tank, when this stuff could've been used, or at least tried, and done whatever it did.

After reading all the warnings against it here, I was absolutely one of those who never believed it. Can't work. Makes no sense. Couldn't work. <shrug> It does, though. At least for me using big bottles and using the refrigerated ones. Next up is my 55 gallon - will let you know.
 
Taking a sample of the water to work with me, will test with an API ammonia test kit to confirm ammonia concentration, then I'll add the correct dose of Safestart this evening and test again 12 hours later, and then over 24 hours later.
 

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