Tank Makeover - Amano Style- *complete*

[zig]

Dont want to say i told you so, but i did warn you to add more plants, you could possibly have avoided the problem.

Is this tank cycled?

 

[paulioo]

Yes the tank has cycled, i used an old filter which had been up and running for about 1 year to help the new one along. 8 weeks and no ammonia, nitrite spikes at all.

Everything was going well, my Glosso was spreading quite nicely, the only algae that i did see was on the very edges of the Glosso which my amano shrimp (now 7 of them) ate during the night.

It was only after dosing Phosphate that the water turned green.

Thats why im annoyed, it was going great. If only i'd purchased a PO4 test kit.

Is a PO4 reading of 2ppm too high or should i buy a PO4 remover?

 

[zig]

High phosphate and nitrate usually doesnt cause green water, its usually ammonia and ammonium NH3 NH4 that cause it, hence the question about it being cycled, its most common in new setups where things get way out of balance.

3ppm of phosphate is not unusually high levels of phosphate, 2ppm out of the tap is fine and will not cause any problems, dont add a phosphate remover, the plants will use up the PO4 for you, you may never have to dose phosphate 2ppm from the tap is a nice manageable level, you will find if you test for it that by the end of the week the PO4 will reduce as the plants use it up, you have to find out at what level they are consuming the PO4, and if nescessary add more, never let it run out.

On the green water its a difficult one, are your other levels ok, are you sure you didnt run out of nitrates and have you been dosing trace, are you sure you had enough co2, something was out of balance to cause the bloom in the first place, you may have noticed the water getting cloudy beforehand for a few days this is usually the first sign of gw.

Try the blackout, you should have done a 50% water change immeaditaly before you blackout and make sure you have cleaned the filter, and when the blackout is over do another 50% water change, the blackout should last 4 days.

UVs are also very effective but you probably hav'nt got one of those.

Just make sure you are on top of the fert regime after the blackout.

Oh yeah you ar'nt useing any root tabs by any chance these can sometimes contain small amounts of ammonia.

Anyway sorry to hear your troubles i hope it goes ok for you, id say the glosso will survive, its a hardy enough plant, it just might get a bit droopy being in the dark for 4 days, but it should recover.

 

[houndour]

just to let you know my glosso has survived, and grown during my 3 day blackout.

Good luck with it...hope it works for you.

 

[qwikimpss]

Your tank looks great, will be amazing when that glosso fills out.

 

[George Farmer]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Paul.

I would guess that your problems may not be 100% associated with N and P issues but a combination of you recent higher light levels and reduced plant bio-mass. The all important balance has been upset and your green water is the consequence.

I'd suggest planting with more fast growing stem plants and doing lots of large paprtial water changes to dilute your green water. Once the green water has subsided and your stems are growing well then slowly replace your stems with more Glosso.

 

[Jen]

I'd suggest planting with more fast growing stem plants and doing lots of large paprtial water changes to dilute your green water. Once the green water has subsided and your stems are growing well then slowly replace your stems with more Glosso.

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That will deffinately take the green away. I had water that I couldn't even see 2 inches into. It was horrible. I had to do 50% water changes daily for almost 3 weeks for the green to be totally gone. That fixed the green, but not the problem (lack of proper nutrients) and the green is coming back.

 

[paulioo]

My green water wasn't anywhere near as bad as not being able to see 2inches into the tank. When looking front on the tank looked nice and clear, but when viewed from the side you could barely see the other side.

I do have root tabs in my substrate which i used for my sword plants in my old setup. I thought it'd be best to keep them in so that they may help the Glosso along. Then when i've disturbed the substrate to bring some laterite nearer the surface this may have disturbed the root tabs.

I did a 50% water change before the blackout and will do the same when its done. I also cleaned the filter and scrapped any visable algae off that i could see. 4 days !! Oh well im pretty busy at the moment anyway.

I'm going to order some algae busting plants tonight which should arrive on thursday, any recomendations? In addition i'm getting some Riccia and hair grass to help make the rocks look more natural in their surroundings.
I bought some christmas moss last week but I didn't like it and it was infested with snails so i just binned most of it

The only reason i thought it was my Phosphate levels to blame was because i had been dosing my nitrates all week to gradually increase the level to 10ppm. Everything was looking good, plants were pearling and algae was minimal. When it reached 10ppm i began dosing Phosphate, the day after dosing so my water was green.

But like you's have said its probably a combination of multiple factors, too much light, low plant bio-mass, root tabs being distrubed etc

At least its good to know my phosphate levels are ok and i dont need to tamper with them. I'll post back on Thursday with my new algae busting plants, clear water and hopefully healthy fish.

Thanks

 

[George Farmer]

Fast growers - Hygrophilas, most Ludwigias, Rotalas, Egerias, Amublia, Water sprites and all floating plants.

 

[zig]

The more i read about green water the less easy it is to understand, there are a lot of reasons why you may get it but nobody seems to know exactly why, ammonia spikes are definatly in the frame even mini ones, but nobody can say for sure, nutrient imbalances and lack of plants are also in the mix, high phosphates definatly do not cause green water, although if you have 0 phosphates sometimes by dosing phosphates into the tank this cures green water, another thing ive read thats very effective for green water is willow branches, you get young branches and put them in your tank (you cant do this with fish in your tank) and within about 7 days they start growing loads of different roots and apperantly this sucks in the GW, and after about 10 days you have crystal clear water, but these are really for stubborn cases, in other cases it can burn itself out if left alone long enough.

I wouldnt clean the filter again if you have fish in the tank just in case you are killing off the benifical bacteria and causeing a mini spike, i think once is enough. 4 days is probably overkill for the blackout if the GW isnt really bad, but its up to yourself if you want to have a look a bit sooner, and id still do a 50% water change immedilaly afterwards, if it hasnt totally cleared continue to do 50% water changes each day for a few days (but dont clean the filter) this may or may not work but for some people it does.

Anyway good luck with it.

 

[simonbrown403]

Good thread keep it going, looking forward to the next set of pics,

Good luck with the tank paulioo

 

[paulioo]

Its a miricale !!!

Green water has completely gone after my 4 day black out And all the bits of algae on the leaves have gone, my Amano shrimp look a hell of a lot bigger

And to top it off my new plants arrived today as well, i got loads of Water Wisteria and Water Sprite and some RIccia and Dwarf Hair Grass.

Got most of the plants floating at the moment except for my grass and one other of the new plants. The hope is the grass will make the rocks look more natural once it grows a little more.

Then once the Riccia grows i'll create some Riccia hills and do away with the rock on the far right.

Unfortunately not all of my Glosso survived..

But most of it did so cant complain too much.

And all my fish are perfectly healthy.

Just after doing a 50% water change, dosing Nitrates to 10ppm and setting up the CO2. Im going to invest in a pressurised CO2 system and an external filter in the next few weeks. Just doing an ebay sale to raise the required funds.

happy days!
Paul.

 

[George Farmer]

Great news Paul. Looking good too.

 

[paulioo]

Ok time for a short update i think...

After my highly successful ebay sale I bought myself a CO2 pressurised system and an Eheim 2222 Pro canister filter.

So in the space of about 1 week my tank went from this..

To this..

The green water that i had managed to get rid off is coming back every so slowly . Mainly because i didnt know what was out of balance.

After reading for what seemed like days I figured out my Potassium might be out. I've read that many people get green water to disapear by increasing the postassium. So i'm aiming to do this over the next few weeks.

Back to more good news My Glosso is carpeting pretty nicely even after 4 day blackouts and green water attack.

Oh and i had to kill two of my neons, they looked like they had neon tetra disease, didnt want to risk the whole tank.

The nutrient levels im aiming for are..
Nitrate 30ppm,
Phosphate 2ppm (from tap cant do anything about it)
Potassium i dose to achieve 20ppm.
Co2 is at 35ppm

If that doesn't keep green water away then i dont know what will.

Paul.

 

[houndour]

do you have a test kit for potassium? if so where did you get it from?