Tackling Ongoing Green Water And Now Finrot!...update Bacteria Inf

[electric yellow]

Hello everyone! Long time since ive been a regular in here!!

So i have the ugly green water algea going on AGAIN in Ramjets tank! I have done everything possible to try to get rid of it and it wont go away. Ive been doing water changes, gravel vaccuming whenever i change the water and ive even added a second internal filter so see if that helps. I have cut down on food but im wondering if it is an ammonia spike that my test kit isnt picking up? ive read that sometimes there will be an ammonia spike that cant be picked up on kits. ive tested it with both of my kits and the readings are normal.

Is there a way i can neutralise it without the addition of chemicals?

Tank details are as follows:

28liters aqua start 320
been established now for nearlly three years
internal under gravel filter
heater - 28degrees C
gravel base
silk plant
ph: 7
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0

so all the stats are normal.

i have removed the treasure chest he sleeps in and washed the plant numerous times but to no avail. I have added in a second internal sponge filter to see if that helps but im at my witts end. He started biting his fin the other day and i can only assume it is in frustration at having to swim round in pea soup.

The only time it went awat was when i moved house to here and i totally drained the tank to move it and started from scratch. -note gravel was not washed so there is plenty of bacteria.

 

[ellena]

Add some fast growing plants like elodea?

 

[electric yellow]

Yeah ive been told to add a plant but they always die so i reverted to silk plants. I can try to find one from the pet shop friday...

 

[lilacamy931]

I would suggest some live plants, otherwise it would be a resort to chemicals..

 

[loraxchick]

could you please post more info on the tank specs?( how many gallons, what types of fish/inverts, decor, substrate etc) whats the lighting like in the tank? what is your maintainece routine? how much substrate do you have in the tank?
how much do you fed him and which type of food?
algae can be triggered by tiny indetectable ammonia spikes, but as you have sponge filters (which work amazingly) i would assume its from other organics like phosphates (from his food maybe). live plants certainly would help. shame they die on you. could recommend some that would suit your tank given the specs once ive seen them.
another thought is to run a diy co2 kit in the tank for a week or two and see if it helps. unstable co2 can casue algae along with ammonia. how often do you do water changes? too many will introduce quite a bit of co2 and with no plants to use it up the algae gladly will. then the algae "blooms" and you want to do another water change to get rid of your "soup" which introduces more co2, repeat cycle. if you had a constant co2 supply and some plants in there it might be worth a shot rather than to use chemicals. stable co2 is better than fluctuating co2.
do you have any other types of algae or just "floating" algae. does your tap water have ammonia in it?
lots of questions but want to get to the bottom of the algae problem.
cheers

 

[JustKia]

Total black out.
That's supposed to help get rid of free floating algae stuff.
Never tried it myself so I can't tell you from experience.
But completely black out the tank for 3 days.

I don't think it's an ammonia spike, especially if you're getting a 0 reading on 2 different tests.
More likely that there is a high level of nutrients (nitrates, phosphates) in your water and that you have a high level of light. If you remove one or other of these then you will probably be on your way to cutting back the algae.
Really good advice from Loraxchick, above.

 

[loraxchick]

if memory serves me right, she has tried a blackout. that is usually what i would suggest (BIG water change followed by up to a 5 day blackout then another BIG waterchange..usually dos the trick, but i feel like ive given her that advice in the past and it worked short term. i would really sus[ect excess nutrients and high light in the tank (which is why live plants dont do well...you need co2 aqnd ferts or theyll do poorly and die off). some specs would be helpful...really just answer above ?'s. diyco2 seems fitting in this instance as it is easy and cheap and will probably help with the algae.
if the OP needs help with how to make a diy yeast reacter let me know. the build will take 10 miutes and cost about $10.
cheers.

 

[Rezatii]

I have moss balls in all my tanks and never have any trouble with algae, perhaps they're worth a shot? They're dirt cheap as well (At least, where I am they are XD)

Hope you manage to get this sorted out, it must be so frustrating

-Rezz

 

[electric yellow]

could you please post more info on the tank specs?( how many gallons, what types of fish/inverts, decor, substrate etc) whats the lighting like in the tank? what is your maintainece routine? how much substrate do you have in the tank?
how much do you fed him and which type of food?
algae can be triggered by tiny indetectable ammonia spikes, but as you have sponge filters (which work amazingly) i would assume its from other organics like phosphates (from his food maybe). live plants certainly would help. shame they die on you. could recommend some that would suit your tank given the specs once ive seen them.
another thought is to run a diy co2 kit in the tank for a week or two and see if it helps. unstable co2 can casue algae along with ammonia. how often do you do water changes? too many will introduce quite a bit of co2 and with no plants to use it up the algae gladly will. then the algae "blooms" and you want to do another water change to get rid of your "soup" which introduces more co2, repeat cycle. if you had a constant co2 supply and some plants in there it might be worth a shot rather than to use chemicals. stable co2 is better than fluctuating co2.
do you have any other types of algae or just "floating" algae. does your tap water have ammonia in it?
lots of questions but want to get to the bottom of the algae problem.
cheers

Tank Specs: Aqua Start 320
Litres: 28
Lighting: i THINK its a 12watt bulb..the original light it came with. Its usually on for 6hours a day.
Water change: right now every second day but usually weekly.
Subtrate: ive thought for a while maybe the gravel is causing the algea. The gravel is larger than the gravel i have in all my other tanks. i have two of these aqua one tanks and the other one has NO PROBLEM at all and the gravel is smaller and lighter in weight i guess. I have thought about removing the gravel or reducing the amount of gravel in there.
Feeding is every second or third day. He gets a combpo of Nutrafin betta flakes and Spectrum Grow by New life.
Stocking: just my VT.
I use a dechlorinator etc when changing the water but the tap water is pretty good here.

The tank is very mature and is holding him till i get my 4ft divided and set up but i cant keep him in something that cant be good for him.

Justkia yes i have done a total black out but my betta ripped the #105### out of his fins while it was going on and i wont black out again unless i can remove him. Not at the expense of his fins.

 

[JustKia]

Fair enough, on the fins.
I read a post just recently in the planted section about something similar. I don't claim to fully understand but it mentioned about how micro nutrients in the water supply feed the algae, we as fish keepers then change the water more often, because of the algae, and thus feed the algae more micro nutrients.
I'll try and find the thread again.

 

[electric yellow]

^^
That would be good to read ive always thought that more water changes would help but im open to ideas.

 

[JustKia]

Do you think I can find it now?
Post 4 of this thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=281746 mentions the same thing though.
I'll keep looking.

 

[loraxchick]

yup Kia,
thats basically what i was saying about doing too many water changes. introduces co2 and micros from teh tap water. instead of having a constant co2 supply (as in a reacter in the tank) you have levels all over the place. that can trigger algae along with the excess nutrients.
so Ellectric Yellow,
do you have any snails in the tank? why do i ask- THEYD EAT UP THE LEFTOVER FLAKES!!! that might be a big source of phosphate (which is an algae trigger). so the fish might miss osme flakes, they rot and then you have excess phosphates and nitrates (i assume your filter can handle the ammonia/nitrites no problemo).
and why did i ask about your substrate? if it is really deep, all those waterchanges, no matter how well you think you are gravel cleaning, stir up gunk which produces excess nutrients (mainly nitrate and possibly phosphate from leftover food). with no live plants in the water to help use them up, the algae explodes! again, i think some snails might be helpful. dont worry about being overrun with them. as long as you are not overfeeding the tank with loads of leftover food around, the tank will not be ABLE to sustain a big population.
also, the algae in NO way harms the fish. it is just unsightly to see in your tank. so dont worry about his health due to the algae.
too bad it is difficult to find freshwater clams. theyd eat all that up in no time. there also are shrimp that "fan feed" that would most likely help clear it up somewhat.
id suggest a big waterchange and substrate clean. and go back to weekly changes for a while. while the "soup" might not be nice to look at, changing water everyother day may be doing more harm than good. id also suggest you think about hooking up co2 in there, even if just for a few weeks.
what sort of problems were you having with the plants that they died? describe how they died and which type you had. do you currently have any other algae in the tank (on the glass or decorations or substrate?) or is it all suspended algae?
hopefully we can get rid of it this time.
cheers

 

[electric yellow]

thanks for your reply ladies

well there isnt any algea in the tank at all apart from the green water...if that makes sense? i have an air stone in there for some air. the guy at the fish shop said that about the micro nutrients and it made sense. he said adding a plant was pointless for tackling algea as algea is light based/feeds on light only? i kind of looked at him blankly and in my head i was saying: well...im sure there is more than one factor that causes algea...

SO i bought a lace fern that is a fast grower and had good roots as they didnt have any eloda.

do you have any snails in the tank? why do i ask- THEYD EAT UP THE LEFTOVER FLAKES!!! that might be a big source of phosphate (which is an algae trigger). so the fish might miss osme flakes, they rot and then you have excess phosphates and nitrates (i assume your filter can handle the ammonia/nitrites no problemo).

No i dont have any snails unfortnantly but i guess i could get an apple snail or something? or do you mean the lil pesty snails that sneak their way into tanks on plants?

im keen to do another 80% water change on sunday because Ramjet has mangled his tail and while there isnt any signs of infection i dont need the bad water quality causing him to get sick. ive blacked out the room windows the tanks are in to see if that helps. he was spealing something about the fluro tubes aswell but if the tank light was not meant for that tank it wouldnt of been built in.

i took a couple of photos for you to see if that helps...

My boy Ramjet and his pea soup of a tank. he was mid flare. Hes my pride and joy, hes survived terrible white spot/ich where he nearlly died and id be devestated if this water was annoying him.

The tank..you can see the new plant and the additional filter i added and also his my other VT Nightlights tank next to him. Same style tank, same water etc and not a problem. Nightlight has a bite in his side fin which is weird but i think they have been staring each other down so i put the folder in the middle. Granted Nightlights tank on the left does have to bristel nose plecs in there aswell as they are small so i guess they would clean up the bottom/excess food. ive tried putting plecs in with Ramjet but he is very territorial and they actually died after a few months for some reason not related to Ramjet.

the other stress is i am away for two weeks after next friday on a hoilday to Daydream Island and i am trying to get everything working and perfect before we go so i dont have to stress!

 

[loraxchick]

nice tanks. and nice boys
any type of snail would do. est" snails are the best option as youd likely get them for free. even ask the store if they could pick some out of a tank for you...most likely they will look at you funny buit give them to you at no charge. you might see a small population explosion at first but dont panic, as long as you dont overfeed the tank, the population will be self limiting.
thats a nice plant you got. you say its lace fern...is it "java lace fern"? to me it looks a lot like wisteria which is a VERY fast growing stem plant. google those two plants and see which one youve got (or maybe a closer picture of leaves/stems/roots.)...the reason i say is that if it is wisteria, it is planted correctly (i would separate the stems a bit...plant them all individually rather than in a giant clump. will make a nice little forest in there. also they are quite tall. you can simply clip off the tops and replant in the substrate. if it is java lace fern, it needs to be tied onto a rock or piece of wood, not planted in the substrate. or it will eventually die. so, just an FYI. better pics of the plant itself (including roots) would help
yup...big waterchange. do you gravel vac? deep into the substrate? keep the substrate clean. may be the source of the fin troubles (unless he did it himself as i think you said he did). dirty substrate is a recipe for some sort of disaster. harbors all types of nasties. if you dont all the turbulence from changing the water might be kicking up organics and casueing the algae as well. it is difficult with a sponge filter as there is more maintenence to clean up the gunk.
regardless of the casue the algae isnt harming the fish...just looks bad to you.
are you thinking about a redo? with different substrate? if you consider it, remove the old substrate and leave the tank bare-bottomed for several big waterchanges(to get rid of as much of the algae spores as possible. then replace the substrate. even put the old stuff back in after a VERY good clean under hot water. no soap!!!
just some thoughts.
cheers