Surface Area.....

Ludwig Venter

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If you have the standard goldfish bowl, and you fill it halfway with water, Imo, you could keep a lot more fish in there as opposed to filling it to the brim, cause half full, will have less water, but provides more surface "oxygen" exchange area.... Are we in agreement???
 
i dont think so

in theory maybe yes.....but a goldfish bowl holds so little water....are we not in agreement that you shouldnt keep any fish in them?....and therefore half a full goldfish bowl...............would still not be good for any fish...

volume does play a part obviously as it holds the oxygen for the fish....surface area only aids the replenishment of oxygen

ie no....a goldfish bowl is too small for the half full scenario being better
 
I think that surface is important for labyrinth fish as they can use the oxygen from the air, but a goldfish is not a labyrinth fish.

Further I think that length and width are more important than height for swimming purposes.
 
I think that surface is important for labyrinth fish as they can use the oxygen from the air, but a goldfish is not a labyrinth fish.

Further I think that length and width are more important than height for swimming purposes.

Bigger surface area = more surface for oxeygen to enter the water, Not only labrynth fish need oxerygen mate
 
Or jsut shove an airstone in a full fishbowl.....although, aren't fishbowls too small for anything anyways?

yes, i know this is theoretical :)
 
i agree with you ludwig

people, the fact that he used a fishbowl as an example has nothing to do with it.

actualy now that i think about it i partly agree with you.

fish dont "need" surface area. imagine a giant ball that has no surface area. some fish wont be on the surface therefor it wont matter to them. most of the time, though, fish use the surface as a place to either hang out or to reach when they are at the top. if you have a giant sphere filled with water, fish that go to the top will be more crowded.

thats about all i can think about right now as i am very intoxicated. i think you have a very good argument though.

good theory to work with ludwig!

lol im going to resign for the night
 
i agree with you ludwig

people, the fact that he used a fishbowl as an example has nothing to do with it.

actualy now that i think about it i partly agree with you.

fish dont "need" surface area. imagine a giant ball that has no surface area. some fish wont be on the surface therefor it wont matter to them. most of the time, though, fish use the surface as a place to either hang out or to reach when they are at the top. if you have a giant sphere filled with water, fish that go to the top will be more crowded.
Actually its about oxygen exchange. The more surface area the more oxygen will dissolve into the water. Without mechanical assistance like an airstone a 4' tall hex tank will not have the oxygen in the water to sustain nearly as many fish as a 4' long tank. If the capacity in gallons is the same the tank with more surface area will be able to support more fish.
 
i think we have got lost somewhat.

yes surface area is important, but the question was in the scenario of a goldfish bowl, would half filling it be better than filling it.

I would say 100% no.

even though i dont agree with goldfish bowls at all.
 
Im on the fence with this one. On one hand the more surface area is good yes, but if you have only half the water then the fish dont have the room they need.
 
I have had fish since the 1950's. All the books written back then gave formulas for calculating the number and size of fish you could keep. They all were based on the surface area of the aquarium.
1. The surface area is the main source of oxygen for the water.
2. Air stones do not increase the surface area significantly. What they do is to circulate the water so that the effective surface area is larger.
The main advantage of a larger volume of water is that the changes in ph, amonia etc. change slower for the same number of fish than a lower volume tank thus giving you and me more room for error in overfeeding etc. Don T.

P.S. The internet is great for information but once in a while you should read a book.
 
i think we have got lost somewhat.

yes surface area is important, but the question was in the scenario of a goldfish bowl, would half filling it be better than filling it.

I would say 100% no.

even though i dont agree with goldfish bowls at all.


im assuming he is meaning goldfish bowls as just an example.

instead of these, why dont we talk about bioorbs as its the same idea not very good surface area so restricts how many u can have, as u could hav more fish in a normal 30l tank than in a 30l biorb even though there the same volume of water, and that leads to the point of ludwig there is less surface area
 
i think we have got lost somewhat.

yes surface area is important, but the question was in the scenario of a goldfish bowl, would half filling it be better than filling it.

I would say 100% no.

even though i dont agree with goldfish bowls at all.

Peter.... I only used the goldfish bowl "shape" as an example...... not particularly the size...... Imagine one 1m or 10m in diameter... You know??..... and also, the airstone is not exclusively in there to "supply" oxygen..... it merely stirs (moves) the water so that the bottom water also gets in contact with the surface, where the actual oxygen exchange takes place....
 
P.S. The internet is great for information but once in a while you should read a book.

The two points you just made are (to my mind) and accepted and standard point of view.
Heres a summary of my opinion of the 3 key variables that affect tank choice, equipment and layout:

1. Surface area - there needs to be sufficient surface area whether due to tank shape, powerhead or air pump to create enough gaseous exchange for the number of fish in the tank. How you do this depends on tank size and the choice of equipment

2. The greater the volume, the slower any changes in water chemistry will take effect as any chemicals added (by you or by the fish i.e ammonia) will be more heavily diluted, which gives you more time to detect and respond to these changes

3. Environment - this is a pretty all encompassing area that basically means what each fish needs from the tank i.e swimming room, substrate, plants, hiding places, compatability - all these vary from fish to fish and all fish put in that tank need to be catered to. You also need to take into account the amount of biological filtration required for the various fish, depending on their total bioload.


Going back on topic, this seems like another one of Ludwigs "How long is a piece of string," questions. And the simple answer to whether to half fill the goldfish bowl is (same as the string question) :

It depends.

If you can put answers to the variables stated above in points 1, 2 and 3 then you'll have an answer to whether or not to half fill the bowl.



Ludwig, you're a good bloke but you need to stop posting stuff like this - I can't resist the temptation to jump on my soap box and state the obvious!

:P
 
Ludwig, you're a good bloke but you need to stop posting stuff like this - I can't resist the temptation to jump on my soap box and state the obvious!

:P

Points 1, 2 and 3 are all variables

Now! now! Tenoh.... please jump on your soap box & please state the obvious, cause I'm extremely curious to hear what the "obvious" is??...... & please qualify "you need to stop posting stuff like this".....

I merely posted a topic, cause I really was interrested in other peoples' views on this...... 7 or 9 people did discuss it, (without attacking me) and came up with some very interresting views (imo)......

By the way.... How long is a piece of string???
 

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