Supercoley's First Planted Tank Adventure

[Nosnibor]

I've not updated for a while so thought I might enlarge on the last few weeks happenings.

Since adding in the cardinals, otos, and pitbulls, I have lost 2 cardinals and 4 Otos. 1 cardinal and 1 Oto died the day after putting them into the tank for unknown reasons, and the others all died by getting trapped in or behind the mesh that was going to be the moss wall. (I say going to be!! I tried to cut costs by putting the moss in so sparsely that it was barely noticeable even after 2-3 weeks and obviously left too many holes for fish to get their heads in or through.)

I have taken the mesh out and am awaiting delivery now of a huge amount of Christmas moss and therefore shouldn't have the same problem this time.

I've also bought some glass 'flo' Lily pipes from AM and because they have suckers outside the aquarium rather than inside, this also means not having to leave spaces for the suckers to hold a spray bar and outpipe like the standard ones needed. They look damn good and am very happy with them. The circulation seems to have improved, and I thought it was good before.

Since I got my pressurised CO2 working again, I was a little cautious of turning it up too quickly (for obvious reasons) and by taking 2 weeks to get it up to a nice shade of green it has led to the usual algae problems caused by inconsistent CO2. This means I now have a Crypt Wendtii and Alternathera Reineckii that have lots of staghorn on them, and Rotala and Riccia with lots of thread algae on them.

I have removed a lot of the algae and hopefully the now stable CO2 will do the rest. I'm not too bothered about the Riccia as I have become a little bored with the look of Riccia when it fills out and tries to take over the whole tank, and also I am a little tired of having to keep trimming it.

I have ordered a batch of Glosso to replace all the Riccia on the substrate and will leave the Riccia on top of the bogwood cave.

I've also ordered a spatterdock plant which any advice would be most welcome as I have not really researched it yet. Was a drunken purchase on ebay. lol

Lastly, the camera I have been moaning about all the way through this journal - Vivitar Vivicam 2.0mp has finally been replaced by a Casio Exilim EX-Z1050 10.1mp which I have to say I am very impressed with.

I will take some pictures to add to this post after it gets dark outside, but thought it better to write this post before the ale starts flowing as it takes me ages then and I don't want to wear the backspace button out. lol

Until Later
Andy

Andy,

I have to say, this is quite a journal indeed. When you said go and have a read I didn't expect this. I read over an hours worth earlier and finished it off tonight, very interesting indeed. I'm so sorry to read about your CO2 disaster, I know you mentioned it to me on another post but it's not until you read the memoir at the time that it really hits home eh.

I can tell you something though, I have learnt from your mistakes, sorry to say. I have got a few more questions that I'd love to ask you and after I install and get the CO2 system that you recommended up and running, I'd like to look into lighting and ask you a few questions about that topic too If you don't mind of course.

Anyway, thanks for sharing all this with us, It makes a very interesting read and a good point of reference - should be pinned in a Journal section of it's own

Cheers

Martin

 

[SuperColey1]

I think if you read through all the journals on here there are a lot of informative ones, where you can learn from mistakes others make, get ideas on scapes, see other ways of doing things etc, so I wouldn't class mine as a pinnable one. I would take a look through some of them in your spare time. They really are worth their weight in gold as they aren't written by experts getting everything right first time. They are people like you and I having the same problems that you and I will face.

I read through loads of journals, mainly the beginner's ones as I wanted to know what was in store for me being a beginner, and believe me, they teach you a lot and can prepare you for the frustration and woe that will inevitably happen in the early stages. Then it doesn't hit you in the face so hard when it does happen and leave you wishing you didn't like the look of planted tanks. Also it does help to prevent some of the catastrophies that can happen but not all. They are an individuals learning curve.

As you can see from my beginnings in fish keeping only 9 months ago the tank was plain and quite boring really, and most of the mods I have made have been done because of a few reasons:

I didn't research first
I didn't know I was going to go planted when I bought the tank.
I have been upgrading gradually rather than get it all ready at first (mainly due to trying to do things cheaply)
I quite like the contained hood that this tank has.

I am quite proud of my tank even though I often (including now) have huge algae problems (which didn't show up on the vivitar. lol) purely because 7 months into planted I haven't had huge huge problems, although the CO2 massacre was a bit of a downer, I think its made me more determined to enjoy what I have done, and also I think I have learned a huge amount along the way.

Since I wrote the post previous to yours I got my hands into the tank a little and of course, the ideas were running (my main problem). Most important thing before getting your hands in is to decide what you are going to do and stick to it (practice what you preach I hear you say. lol)

I decided whilst getting my hands wet (in my drunken haze) that since I'm ditching the Riccia on the substrate, that I'djust take the substrate slate pieces out and trim the cave piece. Then I suddenly decided that I want the algae sorted out before the glosso arrives, so out came the cryptocoryne Wendtii and of the huge width of the plant (with 1ft long roots) I saved 1 crown with about 5 leaves that didn't have staghorn on it, trimmed the roots to half an inch and replanted that (from experience I know it will melt but be the same huge mass again in 3 months time.)

I also cut off some of the Java Fern leaves which were covered in staghorn, and the Anubuas Barteri Petite that is green in my avatar, but was black in the tank (staghorn again) is now in a pot of 1/8 bleach solution for 1 hour, then I will gently scrub it and put it back in (I can see the algae is already going white and wispy)

I've also pulled all the thread algae out (daily job) and got 6 black bin liners taped together ready to cover the glass of the tank for 4 days. Never tried it before but hope it works.
All light plugs will be removed from their timers. CO2 cylinder is closed (although I left the needle valve where it was so I know it will be right when I turn it back on).

So I will try and take some photos now before I cover it and hopefully that will be all sorted and ready for the spatterdock (which I have now researched a little) and the Glosso which I am quite looking forward to seeing as I am sick to death of the Riccia lol.

See you all in 4 days.

Andy

 

[SuperColey1]

So here are the pics pre blackout:

Firstly the tank in full light pre 'fiddling' approx 6pm

Next we have the new Lily 'Flo' outlet (hard to capture the 'in' pipe so no pic of that)

Here we have some pearling on the Rotala Rotundifolia

And on one of the Tiger Lotus (I have 3)

The tank after my 'madcap' Riccia removal

The Anubias Petite after their bleaching (they came away from the rock hence the rubber band)

Some staghorn on the Hygrophylia 'Thai' Stricta

And on the Alternanthera Reineckii

And how the sand looks prior to blackout (Some food for the plecs, tetras, and also MTS)

Hopefully next time I use my new camera on this fish tank it will be algae free, and ready for full lights and dosing again

Andy

 

[Nosnibor]

So here are the pics pre blackout:

Some staghorn on the Hygrophylia 'Thai' Stricta
And how the sand looks prior to blackout (Some food for the plecs, tetras, and also MTS)
Hopefully next time I use my new camera on this fish tank it will be algae free, and ready for full lights and dosing again

Andy

So I take it the purpose for the blackout is that you are getting it ready for more light and you want to get rid of all the algae? What is dosing by the way?

I see that Staghorn you have, I have that on a plant of mine, some is very long indeed. Is it more of a pain than a benefit?

Your tank has gone through a lot of changes since the beginning eh?

Martin

 

[SuperColey1]

The reason for the blackout is purely to kil off as much algae as possible.

The algae took hold when I changed back to pressurised from Nutrafins (ran out of cylinders and was a bit strapped) and then took 2 weeks adjusting the CO2 carefully due to my previous problem with CO2. This let the algae in.

The lights have been on for months so not getting ready for them, although I will start with 4hr 18W - 4hrs 73W - 4hrs 18W before geting back up to about 2-8-2in 4 weeks time.

Staghorn is a ***** of an algae. Once its on your leaves you have to virtually take out of the tank any infected leaves and sometimes whole plants or it just returns. It can cover leaves in some cases and just starve them of light totally, so benefit at all. I would remove infected leaves ASAP and hope it doesn't return.

Dosing is EI Ferts. dosing KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 and TropicaPN)

Yes the tank has been a bit of an adventure since getting a tank with some fish in it, swapping out what I didn't want (or shouldn't be in there) and getting in some fish I did want, eventually settling on the fish I have now. I think the problems I have had with this tank, although not as bad or as many as others will help me get things right from the beginning if I get another tank in the future.

Andy

 

[Nosnibor]

The reason for the blackout is purely to kil off as much algae as possible.

The algae took hold when I changed back to pressurised from Nutrafins (ran out of cylinders and was a bit strapped) and then took 2 weeks adjusting the CO2 carefully due to my previous problem with CO2. This let the algae in.

The lights have been on for months so not getting ready for them, although I will start with 4hr 18W - 4hrs 73W - 4hrs 18W before geting back up to about 2-8-2in 4 weeks time.

Staghorn is a ***** of an algae. Once its on your leaves you have to virtually take out of the tank any infected leaves and sometimes whole plants or it just returns. It can cover leaves in some cases and just starve them of light totally, so benefit at all. I would remove infected leaves ASAP and hope it doesn't return.

Dosing is EI Ferts. dosing KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 and TropicaPN)

Yes the tank has been a bit of an adventure since getting a tank with some fish in it, swapping out what I didn't want (or shouldn't be in there) and getting in some fish I did want, eventually settling on the fish I have now. I think the problems I have had with this tank, although not as bad or as many as others will help me get things right from the beginning if I get another tank in the future.

Andy

Hi,

God there's so much to learn, looking forward to it really. Just waiting for my CO2 system to turn up from Germany and the drop checker from Hong Kong. One thing I'll need to get some advice on is how to slowly introduce the CO2 in to the tank as I don't want to have the same disaster as someone I know... If there's some advice you can throw this way I'd appreciate it, I'm sure I'm going to read every post the day it arrives

Okay, regarding the Staghorn. Not too sure if it's the same after looking at it, but it could be a variant of it. Here's what we have (and if someone could ID this plant I'd appreciate it):

Thanks

Martin

 

[SuperColey1]

In a couple of weeks you are going to have baby plants.
That is a plantlet growing roots from the spore on the mother's leaves.
The curly little green bit is the junior plant growing.
My Java Ferns got furry roots when they grew but once attached to the bogwood the snails, Otos and plecs will remove it.

Start your CO2 setup at lights on time so you have as long as possible a period to monitor and adjust

Put the drop checker in (not with tank water and solutionthat comes with it. You need 4dKH solution and bromo blue which is much more accurate)

Make sure the needle valve is closed
Open the regulator to let 2 bar pressure into the needle valve.
Open the needle valve 1 full turn.
After 10 minutes come back and check the bubble count is around 1bps (It will be very inconsistent for the first few minutes.
Try to get the bubble count slowly up to around the 1.5 - 2 bps and leave for 1 hour.
Check the colour in your drop checker and the bubble rate.
Over the next day slowly increase/decrease dependant on drop checker colour and fish behaviour.

If all is good great.

Don't worry about leaving them for the night because you will already have set the timer the solenoid is plugged into for 2 hours before lights on and 1 hour before lights out. MAKe sure you set it to turn on when you want CO2.

Andy

 

[Nosnibor]

In a couple of weeks you are going to have baby plants.
That is a plantlet growing roots from the spore on the mother's leaves.
The curly little green bit is the junior plant growing.
My Java Ferns got furry roots when they grew but once attached to the bogwood the snails, Otos and plecs will remove it.

Start your CO2 setup at lights on time so you have as long as possible a period to monitor and adjust

Put the drop checker in (not with tank water and solutionthat comes with it. You need 4dKH solution and bromo blue which is much more accurate)

Make sure the needle valve is closed
Open the regulator to let 2 bar pressure into the needle valve.
Open the needle valve 1 full turn.
After 10 minutes come back and check the bubble count is around 1bps (It will be very inconsistent for the first few minutes.
Try to get the bubble count slowly up to around the 1.5 - 2 bps and leave for 1 hour.
Check the colour in your drop checker and the bubble rate.
Over the next day slowly increase/decrease dependant on drop checker colour and fish behaviour.

If all is good great.

Don't worry about leaving them for the night because you will already have set the timer the solenoid is plugged into for 2 hours before lights on and 1 hour before lights out. MAKe sure you set it to turn on when you want CO2.

Andy

WOW, that's amazing Baby something in my aquarium, must be happy there then.

Great tips with the setting up of the CO2 system, wouldn't have thought about starting it as early in the day as I can, knowing me I would have started when I got home in the evening from work - doh! Makes sence - cheers

When you say 4dKH solution is this a kind of RO that I can pick up from my lfs? Also with the Bromo Blue, again is this something I can pick up from the lfs? I read a post where you mentioned this and I mentally noted it so I will go and buy it just before the CO2 system arrives.

With regards to your setting up procedure (which looks great by the way), would this also be the same with a reactor? If the CO2 is coming in via the outlet and not from a diffusor, would it be quite difficult to count the bubbles?

I take it the timer for the solenoid is a separate item that I buy? I have one for the lights but they come on 2 hours in the morning (7am until 9am) then 2 hours in the day (12:30 until 14:30) then 6 hours in the evening (16:30 until 22:30) - do you think I should re-think that program and combine the two together in one timer?

Thanks again

Martin

 

[nry]

I'll agree on the staghorn front - what I have found is that once CO2 is stable again, a normal dose of Seachem Flourish Excel kills it off pretty quickly (if it turns red it seems to be an indicator of death!) and it doesn't normally come back providing everything is stable and sufficient.

 

[Nosnibor]

My lfs hadn't even heard of 4dKH or Bromothymol

I see that the 4dKH is available at Aqua Essentials but their link for the Bromo is broken. Anyone know where I can get it from?

Cheers

Martin

 

[SuperColey1]

most normal Ph liquid test kits are based on bromo blue. I use the one out of my API master kit.

the CO2 would I guess go through the usual hose into the reagent so you can link your bubble counter and NRV inbetween the regulator and reactor.

Timers are always seperate, and yes I would just go for a straight run time like 12-12 if using staggered lighting or a straight 8 hours or so if it is fixed.

i.e. if you use 1 bulb for 2 hours then all for 8 hours then 2 hours 1 bulb again. if you see what I mean.

set the solenoid to switch on 2 hours before the lights and switch off 2 hours before they finish. There will be enough then when the lights come on and will start to dissipate before they go off.

Andy

 

[Nosnibor]

How's your blackout process coming along Andy?

And what happened to your signature with the link to this journal?#


Martin

 

[SuperColey1]

The covers are off. All the thread algae is gone or dead but a lot of the staghorn is still there.

Just recutting mesh now for the moss wall, then will fill with the christmas moss I have (£45 worth)

Then reset timers for lights and CO2. lights will restart tomorrow at 4-4-4 being increased week by week back up to 2-8-2

Don't know about the signature. Think I've sorted it now.

Andy

 

[john starkey]

Hi Andy, best of luck with it all you are working very hard and i am sure you will be rewarded with stunning results. regards john

 

[Nosnibor]

The covers are off. All the thread algae is gone or dead but a lot of the staghorn is still there.

Just recutting mesh now for the moss wall, then will fill with the christmas moss I have (£45 worth)

Then reset timers for lights and CO2. lights will restart tomorrow at 4-4-4 being increased week by week back up to 2-8-2

Don't know about the signature. Think I've sorted it now.

Andy

Nice one mate, there is a lot of work but if you enjoy it I don't see it as that kind of work, I love it.

So Christmas Moss eh, I'll go and have a look at that. I bought Riccia, two kinds:
Item: 320136123491 - Riccia x 2 Matted on ebay and
Item: 120139968006 - Riccia Fluitans, Crystalwort, floating plant on ebay

Any feedback on these would be great. They're not really growing at the mo but they have only been in there for about a week and the CO2 has only just started.

With regards to lighting, I only have the standard unit that came with the tank. The standard lighting unit states: High-Lite Light Unit 92 cm, 2 x 35 W, the bulbs are slightly different I can see that. Ideally I would like to emulate the dusk 'til dawn effect with one bulb then 2 or 3 ending with one again in the evening. Is there a good starting point that you can direct me to?

Thanks

Martin