Still Nothing Happening

[LionessN3cubs]

I put a matured sponge filter in the tank 24 hours ago. Tested this morning and if anything my ammonia is a little bit HIGHER because of the gunk that came with the filter. Im going to give this until say monday to see some kind of difference. If the ammonia doesnt drop at all by then I give up. I'll drain all the water and start fresh. Then I'll try cycling with fish. A woman can have only so much patience in the face of NO results despite doing everything possible yanno?

Today is day 13 since I fixed everything.

PH is right,
ammonia is between 4 and probably 5.
Temp is 86.
Matured filter in tank (24 hours)...BIG matured filter...far more than a simple filter cartridge

even if 24% of the aob/nob population died off in 2 day shipping (3 at most) I should still have seen SOME drop in 24 hours correct?

 

[Tolak]

You will see a drop, give it a little time. 4-5ppm used for a fishless cycle is far more ammonia than is produced by a normally stocked tank, it is more along the lines of a tank that is easily double the stocking rate. It may take a few days for the nitrifying bacteria to grow to the point that it can handle this amount of ammonia.

Take into account the amount of fish you plan on stocking with at first, and add the ammonia accordingly to make sure the filters are processing enough ammonia & nitrite to handle the fish you plan on stocking the tank with.

Personally I would have put the fish in straight away, I did this in a 55, with 9 nickel size angels, that set me back $30 each.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

You will see a drop, give it a little time. 4-5ppm used for a fishless cycle is far more ammonia than is produced by a normally stocked tank, it is more along the lines of a tank that is easily double the stocking rate. It may take a few days for the nitrifying bacteria to grow to the point that it can handle this amount of ammonia.

Take into account the amount of fish you plan on stocking with at first, and add the ammonia accordingly to make sure the filters are processing enough ammonia & nitrite to handle the fish you plan on stocking the tank with.

Personally I would have put the fish in straight away, I did this in a 55, with 9 nickel size angels, that set me back $30 each.

do you think I should do like a 90% change of water again (since ammonia is so high) and then just go buy fish? I'll do that today if you think that is best

 

[Tolak]

I would at least do a 50%, cut the ammonia level in half. If you want to wait to make sure they are working properly this is the route to take. As long as the sponges were kept wet with dechlorinated water the nitrifying bacteria should have minimal die back.

If you want to get fish do the large water change, and just start stocking lightly. While I trust Steve & the products he sells I wouldn't go fully stocking or overstocking a newly set up tank unless I was using my own filter media and was aware of the bio load it can handle. I believe those sponges come from tanks running in his system, so they could be one of four or six from a 55, or a spare running in a 29 or 40 with a pair.

 

[Jeff Lange]

well mine seems to be taking some time too. Not sure if I stalled or not. Been 12 days and may have stalled. My Nitrite is still 4-5 ppm. I added a bit of ammonia yesterday in fear I did not have enough. My Nitrate has been 0.25 for 3 days or so with no movement and I actually tested for Nitrate and had traces of Nitrate maybe 5.0. Not sure how as my ammonia stays constant and my Nitrite is not moving higher than 0.25 just a trace. Anyway I will keep with it for while to see if I can get the Fishless Cycle to work.

 

[Jeff Lange]

well mine seems to be taking some time too. Not sure if I stalled or not. Been 12 days and may have stalled. My Nitrite is still 4-5 ppm. I added a bit of ammonia yesterday in fear I did not have enough. My Nitrate has been 0.25 for 3 days or so with no movement and I actually tested for Nitrate and had traces of Nitrate maybe 5.0. Not sure how as my ammonia stays constant and my Nitrite is not moving higher than 0.25 just a trace. Anyway I will keep with it for while to see if I can get the Fishless Cycle to work.

Opps, meant Nitrite is 0.25 not Nitrate. Nitrate was 5.0 I think.

 

[waterdrop]

Mine certainly behaved somewhat like yours Jeff. During the first 12 days I saw some small drops in ammonia that resulted in a little bit of Nitrite showing up. Specifically:

(looking way back in my log in Feb/March)

Day 1 - Ammonia seemed more like 4ppm, the the 5-6ppm I was after (at the time)
Day 2 - Added a few more drops of Ammonia hoping to make it just slightly darker than 4ppm
Day 5 - Ammonia looks same, slightly above 4ppm
Day 7 - Ammonia now looks more like 2ppm, slightest hint of NO2 showing up
Day 12 - Have Ammonia back at 4ppm, NO2 now definately 0.25ppm
Days 14 & 15 - exact same results as Day 12
Day 19 - "Kickstart" water change (recommended by members here) 70% water change w/cond.temp-match,amm
Day 22 - Ammonia 5ppm, NO2 at 0.25ppm
Day 23 - NO2 at 1.0ppm (!) Ammonia: 5ppm, (pH has been about 7.2 all along)
Day 26 - NO2 at 5.0ppm, Ammonia 0ppm, pH crashed to 6.0, NO3 10-20ppm

That takes you up to my Nitrite spike and my first big Ammonia drop to zero. As you can see, I saw some small amounts of Nitrate along the way and some small ammonia drops along the way, but when the changes came, they were dramatic.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jeff Lange]

Mine certainly behaved somewhat like yours Jeff. During the first 12 days I saw some small drops in ammonia that resulted in a little bit of Nitrite showing up. Specifically:

(looking way back in my log in Feb/March)

Day 1 - Ammonia seemed more like 4ppm, the the 5-6ppm I was after (at the time)
Day 2 - Added a few more drops of Ammonia hoping to make it just slightly darker than 4ppm
Day 5 - Ammonia looks same, slightly above 4ppm
Day 7 - Ammonia now looks more like 2ppm, slightest hint of NO2 showing up
Day 12 - Have Ammonia back at 4ppm, NO2 now definately 0.25ppm
Days 14 & 15 - exact same results as Day 12
Day 19 - "Kickstart" water change (recommended by members here) 70% water change w/cond.temp-match,amm
Day 22 - Ammonia 5ppm, NO2 at 0.25ppm
Day 23 - NO2 at 1.0ppm (!) Ammonia: 5ppm, (pH has been about 7.2 all along)
Day 26 - NO2 at 5.0ppm, Ammonia 0ppm, pH crashed to 6.0, NO3 10-20ppm

That takes you up to my Nitrite spike and my first big Ammonia drop to zero. As you can see, I saw some small amounts of Nitrate along the way and some small ammonia drops along the way, but when the changes came, they were dramatic.

~~waterdrop~~

Yea, I will w8 it out, I figured it would take approx 30 days or so, so I will keep monotoring. Not planning any water changes atm

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Lioness,

I would advise against abandoning the fishless cycle in favour of adding fish to cycle with, and here is why

If your ammonia from the bottle isn't processing, I can't see any reason why the ammonia produced by the fish would process either. As far as i can tell, the only thing adding fish would achieve, is making the cycle harder work for you, and much more stressful on the tank inhabitants.

If you add fish, you'll still have the problem that the ammonia isn't processing, you'll just have fish to contend with at the same time.

Adding fish isn't the answer. Finding out why the ammonia isn't dropping and rectifying the problem and then continuing the fishless cycle is a far better solution.

I realise you are getting impatient, as anyone would, but i urge you to re-consider about getting fish just now.

Cheers

BTT

 

[TheConstantGrower]

Back to Tropical couldn't be more right. Ive actually returned fish to the store so that i could just start over and cycle my tank.


Where and what type of ammonia you used to try and cycle your tank is the wild card here... I believe there's an entire thread devoted to finding the right ammonia due to many people using ammonia with additives and farking their cycles.

But one thing i saw that puzzled me was the "kickstart" on day 19.

I legitimately don't understand that, from a purists point of view, why not just leave the ammonia in (adding when nessecery) and let the tank do the rest. now correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't doing that water change just take out vital ammonia / nitrIte? further slowing down the cycle?


EDIT: Found it http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...bby/38840/this/

 

[waterdrop]

Hi TheConstantGrower...

Its complicated, lol! The post about the "kickstart" on Day19 was a post by me (waterdrop) about my own fishless cycling log and I was in fact answering Jeff Lange, who was asking a question about his own fishless cycle, wondering about small amts of nitrite showing up in the results prior to the real nitrite spike point of the process.

The word "kickstart" was, I think, of my own making and I was using it to describe a large water change I had to do because my local water is extremely soft, between 0 and 1 degree KH. The softness allows the pH to drop very quickly when the multiplying bacteria acidify the water. Below pH 6.2, the good bacteria basically stop multiplying. I did a couple of "kickstarts" when pH reached 6.0 prior to realizing that I could add a little baking soda and keep pH from crashing. Part of what I called a kickstart always included bringing the changed water back up to 4ppm right after the change.

Lioness doesn't have the soft water problem. In fact I think she has rather optimal pH for bacterial growth, she just probably hasn't had enough days yet. Jeff & I have been commenting in her thread occassionally and hoping to encourage her in the cycle as BTT has.

What were your own experiences with the time it took to do a fishless cycle and did you have any problems?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Back to Tropical couldn't be more right. Ive actually returned fish to the store so that i could just start over and cycle my tank.


Where and what type of ammonia you used to try and cycle your tank is the wild card here... I believe there's an entire thread devoted to finding the right ammonia due to many people using ammonia with additives and farking their cycles.

But one thing i saw that puzzled me was the "kickstart" on day 19.

I legitimately don't understand that, from a purists point of view, why not just leave the ammonia in (adding when nessecery) and let the tank do the rest. now correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't doing that water change just take out vital ammonia / nitrIte? further slowing down the cycle?


EDIT: Found it [URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...bby/38840/this/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...bby/38840/this/[/URL]

Unless there is an unknown contaminate in the bottle of ammonia...its the right one. It lists softened water, ammonia, and chelating agenst for ingredients

The did do a water change but that was to lower my ammonia level down from 5 to 3 just in hopes it would help.

 

[waterdrop]

Did any of the chemist-types here ever say the softened water and chelating agent sounded ok? I have no clue.

At least yours had an ingredient list! Mine just said clear ammonia and at least was in a clear bottle so I could see it didn't foam and looked as much like plain water as possible.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. thanks for the congrats in the other thread!

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Did any of the chemist-types here ever say the softened water and chelating agent sounded ok? I have no clue.

At least yours had an ingredient list! Mine just said clear ammonia and at least was in a clear bottle so I could see it didn't foam and looked as much like plain water as possible.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. thanks for the congrats in the other thread!

I dont know about the UK but I had something happen when I was looking for ammonia that make's me not trust the foaming thing. I'd picked up a bottle that said clear ammonia, looked for an ingredient list and didnt find one. Did the shake test and got no foam so I took it to the counter...as she was scanning it I saw the ingredient list....it had surfactants in it..but it didnt foam. After that I wouldnt even consider a bottle without an ingredient list.


They definately said chelating agents were fine....maybe the softened water isnt?!...hmm I'll have to do a post on it since I've already read several threads on ammonia and didnt see anything about it. I just assumed water, softened or not, was okay.