Spine Bend - Other Then Tb

[Zyden]

I have a 70L tropical set-up for about a year now. It contains the following:
7 cardinal tetra (originally just 3, have added 4 more in the last month)
4 platy
1 Guppy
1 zebra danio (rescued, which is why he is alone. I don't really like danio, but he needed a home).

Each week I do a small water change (mid-week), then a 20-30% change and gravel vacuum at weekends. Water levels always work out nicely. Tempt 23 degrees C.

Food is a mix of 3 different brands, plus occasional pea, and some 'tetra fresh delica' when I can get hold of it.

I add minaroll vitamin/minerals and aquarium salts.

All of the above fish appear to be thriving, however, I have had 3 deaths in the last 3 months: 2 guppy and 1 male platy. All were purchased in roughly the same 3 week period, but from 2 different suppliers. They have all had varying symptoms except for one crucial similarity: a bent spine. This is not an S shape bend, but a small kink to the left or right, that either over 3 days to almost 2 weeks becomes a near 45 degree bend. 1 fish showed signs of paralysis in the tail fin before the kink became evident. Others have been active with the kink, but then rapidly gone down hill. The kinks appear overnight as far as I can tell, as I observe the fish closely each day.

I am doubtful of TB, which seems to be the amateur googled response to such a symptom. I was thinking perhaps a deficiency in something, or a parasite. But I am at a loss. If it's a deficiency, why are other fish I've had for longer thriving? If it's a parasite, why is it only affecting one fish at a time? The guppies seem affected the worse. Could this be related?

Many thanks for any input. 8)

 

[Liquid skills]

a bent spine could mean its/they are in pain some animals do this to cope with it but there are illnesses but i cant remember any atm lol thought the pain thing would come in handy i did write an artical on fish tb hopein it would of been pinned but nah unfortunatly not i dought its tb aswell

 

[Mowbz]

Why are you adding salt to a tropical aquarium, may i ask? If its as a medication, its better to remove the affected fish and treat separately, most freshwater fish wont tolerate salt in any amount.

Hope this helps.

 

[Zyden]

Why are you adding salt to a tropical aquarium, may i ask? If its as a medication, its better to remove the affected fish and treat separately, most freshwater fish wont tolerate salt in any amount.

Hope this helps.

I add the Aqua salt to the isolation tank as 1 small teaspoon per 10 gallon. The fish are not moved to the isolation tank until I see a spine kink (as this is the 1st sign something is up). If you think adding the salt is hastening the fish's demise then I will of course not add it.

I should just add that I do also live in a hard water area.

 

[MBOU]

Can be genetic, the kink might be there but you wouldnt notice it until it became really prounced enough to deform the the body... lots of livebearers seem to get it. If its any help... im seeing more and more guppies (especially) and platies with this problem, though no one can give me a straight answer.

Could also be ongoing or old damage from high nitrates i think?

 

[Mowbz]

No no, if you have them separated its not an issue, its just not recommended for community set ups. The neon's certainly wont like it!

There have been lots of new people that post on here that seem to add it as the norm when doing water changes, and wonder why plecs etc die!

If it helps, i have 1 tiger barb that's had a kink since i got him. Doesnt effect him at all, he still chases others about!

If its any help... im seeing more and more guppies (especially) and platies with this problem, though no one can give me a straight answer.

Interbreeding? I have no idea, first thing that pops to mind!

 

[Liquid skills]

i have a betta whos spine goes in a s shape but he/she is deformed

 

[Zyden]

Interestingly, the sunset platy, mickeymouse platy and cardinals have so far been totally unaffected. The affected fish have been unusual colourations I selected for their novelty. I fear a little for the green snakeskin guppy, but he did come from a breeder well known for their sound stock.

I'll keep this thread posted with anymore kinks!

 

[blinky000]

I know that electric currents can cause back kinks. Presumably the initial current can blow the spine which then means it's improperly aligned and it then carries on growing at an awkward angle, making it look gradually worse as they grow. This is just a possibility but I'd recommend testing if there's a current in the water before you put your hands in there again. Better safe than fried

 

[afremont]

As you said, the "typical" explanation found when looking around is TB. TB bends the spine by degenerating a bone in the spine, this surely takes some amount of time to occur and seems unlikely to appear overnight. Another poster mentioned electric current and that sounds like something work looking into. You could try switching your heater out, but it's not like you're going to immediately know that was the problem. Another possibility is that it is some type of fast growing bacteria that operates like TB lodging in the spine and eating up the bone, but that seems unlikely. Since they are bent sideways, is it possible that something is scaring the fish at night and they are slamming into the glass? Got any aggressive nocturnal creatures?

 

[MBOU]

Been chatting to a few people with similar problems, mostly in guppies. They seem ok for months or years and then almost over night the spines have curved and bent sideways or downwards.

Have heards its also worth treating with that Interpet AntiInternal Bacteria. I name that one as i cant remember the ingredient name off the top of my head, bronopol might have been one of them lol) but aparently fair bit of luck with that...

 

[Zyden]

Ok, I've had a careful examination of the electricals, and there is nothing obviously wrong there. The surge protector should also trip if this were a problem, which it has never done. The room they're in is nice and quite all day/night long, and nothing spooky or aggressive in the tank.

The fish are removed the moment I notice a kink (so within a few hours of it developing). Little tip for all fishkeepers - regularly examine your fish from above! But symptoms worsen until death in the isolation tank.

I see no loss of colour, no ulcerations, no unusual marks, missing scales, no gasping, torn fins. Nothing. The fish honestly look fine except they become bent, lack-lustre and stop eating in the final stages. There is no strange movement. They simply just seem to lose their pluck, then within the next day or two the kink appears.


It's very curious that this has affected all fish from the same LFS, but has taken around 3 months to kill them all off. The initial 2 week isolation period in this scenario proved a futile endeavor (not that it still isn't good practice). I haven't gone back to that shop since buying the guppies and platy, and I certainly don't feel like 'testing' the theory.

Honestly I'm still baffled. My instinct is blaming internal parasites or mycobacteria, but without knowing which, it's not looking hopeful, and anything so slow-growing (assuming the bent spine is the penultimate symptom before death), it is likely to be near impossible to remove by any means that won't cull the fish. I won't be replacing any fish for a good 6 months, so it's a case of seeing if this continues.

No other fish at the moment are showing signs. So I plan to sit back and watch closely.