Some More Breeding Questions. ^^;

[Amberleaf]

All righty. SO. I was talking to my Mom today, about.... I don't know.... stuff.... And, we decided that, in December break, we should breed Bettas. ^^; That being, of course, only *if* we can get a 10-gallon tank from our friends. ^^;

We chose Libra (pink-bodied with red fins delta tail, and some green streaks and scales; male), and Aqua (blue spadetail; female), so, I'm guessing that all fry would be looking like, either delta-tails, or long-finned fishies, or spade-tails, or some strange deltas with tips at the ends of their tails, and vice-versa.

The only problem isssss.... About condition. Do you absolutely *need* to feed both the female *and* the male live foods? Also, could you temporarily house one of the fish in something like.... I dunnos.... A 1-gallon jar? Or.... A 2.5-gallon tank? Aqua lives in a community tank with one *greedy* female, sooooo....

Also, there is a recurring fin-rot problem with Aqua and Queenie's tank. It comes, I treat with Maracyn, I wait a few weeks, it comes back. Aqua *seemed* to be healing, but it might be coming back. I treat with Maracyn 1. Any help, on thats? ^^;

Blaghhhhhs.... There was something else I wanted to say, buts, I *forgot*.... D ^^;

 

[GuppyGoddess]

Personally, I wouldn't try breeding a betta with a fin rot problem. Also, I read on here that it's best to breed quality bettas, not ones from LFSs. My female made a fabulous bubble nest, tempting me to breed her *that day*, but then I was told that they do need live food for a few weeks and all I had been feeding her and her "boyfriend" were pellets and bloodworms. Can you buy a pregnant guppy from a store and feed the fry to the bettas? That is what I would do.

ETA - in a betta book I read a while back, it said the BEST and most efficient way to cure fin rot is by doing regular water changes. Meds aren't necessary if you can keep up with the water!

 

[karigupi]

It is neccessary to condition both male & female for about two weeks, live bloodworm is best i've found, but I mostly use defrosted frozen bloodworm.

FOr the one in the community tank, I would leave her there & try to target feed her, I do it with some of my fish by holding the bloodworm in a pair of plastic tweezers, Betta's are normally really good at taking food this way.

If the greedy female is a problem, could your mum stand at other end of the tank feeding her pellets, while you feed your chosen female with the tweezers?

 

[karigupi]

Just to add, I agree with lots of water changes for the finrot.

Also be careful breeding any betta which has been unwell recently, breeding them can be very stressful & hardwork for them, its not that uncommon for either the male or female to be sick or die after breeding, which is why its so important that they are conditioned & in the best of health.

Good luck with it, make sure you keep us upto date on how they get on.

 

[aly_starh]

Not trying to offend you, but were you not having difficulty with having multiple tanks in your house a few weeks ago.

Anyhoo, betta breeding is a decision not to be taken lighlty.
Have you got male growout containers, fry growout tank, live food cultures, to say the least.

This is an exrract from my website, a quick guide, please make sure you do your research fully.


BREEDING The decision of breeding bettas should not be taken lightly, it requires extensive research and much thought, time and money.
2 of the healthiest bettas should be used. Each betta will require conditioning; this is basically feeding them lots of live foods.

A spawning tank should be set up (5g-10g) with a heater set at 29C,and a sponge filter. The female should be put into a chimney until the male has built a bubble nest, after 2 days the female can be released.
After spawning takes place, remove the female immediately, the male might kill her if he feels threatened. 3 days later fry should be free swimming, it is now time to remove the male or he will eat them.

Whilst taking care of the fry, it is also important to check on the health of the parents, carry on feeding them live foods for 2 days or so before weaning them back onto dry food.

Feed the fry 3 times a day with high protein live food, micro worms, vinegar eels, baby Brine Shrimp are all excellent.
For the first 2 weeks tank should not be cleaned, but after this switch on the sponge filter and do daily water changes of around 50%. The fry will dramatically grow with water changes.

At around 6 weeks, start feeding fry dry food, along with the live cultures. By this time they will have developed their labyrinth organs. It’s now also the time to separate all the males into individual containers as they will start being aggressive. These containers should be 1l minimum, and daily water changes will need to be done. As there is no heater for these, they will need to be kept in a warm room.

At around 16 weeks they can be sold on.

All Rights Reserved © 2009 BettaBubbles

 

[aly_starh]

The only problem isssss.... About condition. Do you absolutely *need* to feed both the female *and* the male live foods? Also, could you temporarily house one of the fish in something like.... I dunnos.... A 1-gallon jar? Or.... A 2.5-gallon tank? Aqua lives in a community tank with one *greedy* female, sooooo....

Regrading conditioning, the foods used preferably should be live, if not pellets will do, but make sure they are freshand have a high protien content. Males should be feed live foods 3-5 times a day and females should be feed variously until they are full, this should carry on for 2 weeks until the female is placed in the chimney.

To house Aqua, the 2.5G tank will be better, she wont have swimming space in 1g. Make sure you do daily water changes as the conditioning food will cause alot of mess in the tank.

Once again, i urge you to research fully before breeding the bettas.

 

[kelly528]

The only problem isssss.... About condition. Do you absolutely *need* to feed both the female *and* the male live foods?

Even if you got by and feeding the parents dry food, you need need need to feed the fry a multitude of live foods for about 6 weeks. All of the live food cultures will also need to be fed, have their water changed, etc. and they need to be refrigerated.

 

[theshadowinc]

It sounds fun and is awsome to watch but are you considering all the issues you might run into and the one no one has picked apart yet being if you make it successful what are you going to do in about 6-8 weeks when the males start bullying everyone in the tank, you need to seperate them in to there own space so means having eaither a drip system ready for the fry to grow out in or cups available able to hold 1gal ea. I myself have over 300 jars kinda like mason jars but alot bigger, just imagine the work in something like that. You need to change water everyday for the fry and I even recommend 2 times a day because of the fact you are feeding live food to the babies 300 jars takes awhile to change even if you just dump water out and put new in going through 300 jars could be a nightmare on your street! This is the first thing you should be looking at besides food and getting the female and male ready if you don't have a setup like this I would not even recommend trying this. I have had a spawn of up over 500 and lost half only because I couldn't keep up with water changes live feeding to the babies when seperated. The thing is for best resaults you need to seperate all the fish into there own little jar so imagine me changing water on 500 jars even the females for the reason of the aggression at feeding time in a 40gal grow out tank!

Have you looked into food and researched what is best used for the fry, remember breeding is not just letting them to there thing, you have to raise the fry to be succesful. Could you tell me why someone would tell you not to use alot of microworms at feedings and why you should be feeding bbs and vinager eals there is other food to but going for the easy stuff now. Are you going to be able to do 5-6 feedings in a day, yes everyone says 2-3 times a day guess what you want them big and strong and out of the house by month 3 you need to feed them and crank up the heat. by week 6 they should be full of colour and approx 2-3".

You can condition them very easy not even feeding live foods but good quality frozen is needed to make the batch big! Frozen Bloodworms for beefing up, Frozen Brine Shrimp for a treat, Dalphinia to help keep them clean so there stoles are perfect before the breed.

What are you trying to get out of this a nice looking halfmoon pair....? You need a reason besides $$$ for doing it or its a waste of time. Honestly it costs money to make money just putting them in a 10gal tank and seeing dollar signs in the tank isn't going to help situations. What if 4 weeks into the batch you end up with ick? Or worse yet some fungal infection or a internal infection so the fry stop eating why?? This costs you money because you lost the batch or you need to treat fast and how do you treat a babie?? (Good example I have a crowntail male black with red tips and blue on the inner side of the finage)not baught from your local fish store they dont have them! I want to get the black line out so what do I breed it with?? Another black?? Guess what black females are no good and all a black CT is for is for breeding them! To try and get eaither the black line gone, discover a new colour in the line, or keep the black line going for the purpose of making $$$ example I paid a deer price for it very rare from where I am many people where bidding on it like crazy! Guess what next auction I will have more than just 1 black to sell and make my money back from the fish so I hope! My halfmoon and delta dragon orange, new strain why breed a new strain to make it more popular and weind out the old! There are many reasons but for money is not one of them. And if your local pet store said they would buy them all they are full of crap most I sold to a store was 20 at a time! wow $20 what to do with the other 480 fry! Aslo considered what you paid for your fish is it worth trying it??

Here is a good one for you and everyone reading I am jarring my fry why when I test my water do I end up with ammo readings and never get Nitrite readings right after I change the water and using distilled water (95%) water change?? Do you plan on using a Almond leaf. And a nother serious note why the colours you are picking the red of a dragon orange run off because thats what the fish type is of the delta female and are you sure its a delta female? Are you able to tell the difference between vail female and delta female if you breed vails you migh as well forget it.

Do you know what you are looking for to cull your fry out, do you know what this means how hard are you going to cull this depends on why you are breeding in the first place. Example when I cull my fry anything with any type of fungus infection is gone imediatly and so are all the belly floaters this will get rid of half of what you have if not more

You are only planning for the xmas break time to do this?? Maybe you should think twice about it, this will take way mroe than 2 weeks this will take you up to 12 weeks before they are sellable to stores if you are lucky, not many breeders do I know that can make them grow quick. And a side note you will be putting off your homework to make sure that water changes are done etc! Have you ever fed fish 1 blood worm at a time 500 jars?? 5-6 times a day?

Have you ever weind a fish off of live food? This can be a challenge on its own!

these are just some of the things to worry about, getting them to mate is the easiest thing on the earth to do especially being a kid I bet luck will be on your side for the most part of it, but ask yourself what would you do with 500 jars

Some major resarch you should do also do you know what temps the fry can handle?? What happens if your male starts attacking the female but they are mating like crazy do you take it out or leave in?? Could be the difference between eatin fry eggs and a dead fish! What if the male doesn't take on raising the fry do you take the male out and leave the female to care for the eggs??? This question usually only the experienced ones know from trying it and me being one had to leave a female in to care for the eggs! Not always successful

Whats best raising the females in one tank or individually like the males

these are just randome questions to think about before you take the huge leap, bettas are not a normal fish to breed and I am being honest about that, cichlids would be easier for you as they are mouth brooders and can be raised in the same tank, heck even discus would be a better attempt for you if you could get over the fact about the price tag and knowing you need to buy min 7 to try and get a pair or 2 out of the bunch. Not only with discus do you not need to worry about food right away but all you feed is bbs till they get bigger and then onto eaither live worms or straight to beefheart! and all in the same tank the parents raise the babies but then you need to know when to seperate the parents!

Bettas is a huge jump and are okay for people as a first pet to have to be introduced into the hobby(as many have baught them and ended up finding out after it dies how to properly take care of it), other than that thinking of breeding them can lead to frustration and many other complicated things you have to decide at the last min!

If you can get past all this stuff and heed advice from someone that use to be in your shoes and started the same way you did along time ago, trust me I thaught of this in my younger days and actually did it, my very first attempt I failed only because I was not educated and how many people you think will be honest to you upfront and tell you that I failed probably about 20 times! And then finally success and guess what I went to sell the pet store and they said we only want 20 of them for now 10 females and 10 males I was like #128###. Don't do it for the money if that is what you are thinking about trust me I have been there and done that I think it cost me more in the end and lost on the deal just to get rid of them. Then after a few attempts like that I moved onto halfmoon mix with delta and then to delta and halfmoons and following a colour line and doing the line breeding thing, I made money from that but still I think it covered my costs and maybe enough for gas money at the end of it all. It wasn't till I was producing show quality bettas finding out take them to a few shows they get ribbons and I win money from it it pays for the breed maybe and then sell that fish at auction is where I made my money and found out that in maybe 1 batch I could sell 2-3 pairs that would go for !$100 and sad but still not really break even in the end. (Costs money to do it, live food, food for the live food, hacheries and eggs for bbs they are not cheap for good quality stuff, tanks, my jars I got at a good price $1 ea so 300 to start that bill was $300, air hose and filters, heaters, lights, pales, hoses for water change, a good qulity air pump(I did more than one tank at a time) Thermometers ~ need to know what temp it is, declorinating supplies (RO system), Almond leafs at the time they where more money than now. Fish bags for when I sell on ebay well the ebay thing didn't work well. Shipping was a nightmare my first few times I had to do it. really its a big picture you have to look at and how much you think you will make per fish?? Are they special fish?? This is why I say what I say to try and open your eyes more than what some of the members are trying to state to you.

If you do go through with it GL I hope all the best for you and hope you do a big cull and its not alot of fry you get just to make things easier on you for the first time!

And a tip don't ever decide to do a double female or even triple for a single batch you will end up with about 900 after a hard culling and a tank hard to keep clean

theshadowinc

P.S. Forgot to mention test kits mainly Ammo, Nitrite and Nitrate you can skip out on when doing the jarring if you need me to explain I can I have done many! Also Medications for everything! You need them on hand! (Bettafix doesn't work with fry) at least not all the time
and lots of water!

 

[Amberleaf]

It's just mainly a test.... I might actually not even go through with it.... What I read in a Betta book I bought, is that you can take the female out after you get a few eggs. So, if I have around 30 eggs, and I only get 1 fry out of it, that's okay. I'm sure that I could bear to cull fry, if you mean by using clove oil or whatever. I am reading as many guides as I can get my computer mouse & little hands on, so I'm learning a lot. ^^; It's an experiment. If I get a few dollars out of it, that's fine. Probably, though, if I *do* get any fry, I'll just keep them. Can you not tell me that people *DO* breed Bettas to experiment with it?? Will you tell me that they do only do it for money, and only if they're a good pair?? Honestly, I'm learning, here. There's plenty of grey areas, and I'm not too worried.

 

[aly_starh]

People dont breed bettas for profit, the money (if any) they do get when they *sell* the fry, just about covers all the electricity and heating bills etc. Not to mention all the different fry foods, grow-out ontainers and tank w/ equipment needed.

just thought id say if you do breed them for a profit, be ready to only make a few £'s

 

[GuppyGoddess]

People dont breed bettas for profit, the money (if any) they do get when they *sell* the fry, just about covers all the electricity and heating bills etc. Not to mention all the different fry foods, grow-out ontainers and tank w/ equipment needed.

just thought id say if you do breed them for a profit, be ready to only make a few £'s

The slim profit is assuming you can even find someone to take them *at all*! Right now, I have a male and two female guppies in a tank and I *MADE SURE* that before I combined them that I'd have at least two stores to take them. I can also give them away on Craig's List if all else fails (plus, if that doesn't work, I can just get a giant tank and keep them together).

I do think breeding bettas is a risky venture. Personally, I'd try a less complex fish first. Such as platy fish or guppies. See how that goes

 

[Amberleaf]

Well, I have my 55-gallon, now, so I'm not breeding Bettas. I'm too fascinated with my 55 gallons of water! XD

 

[theshadowinc]

People dont breed bettas for profit, the money (if any) they do get when they *sell* the fry, just about covers all the electricity and heating bills etc. Not to mention all the different fry foods, grow-out ontainers and tank w/ equipment needed.

just thought id say if you do breed them for a profit, be ready to only make a few £'s

The slim profit is assuming you can even find someone to take them *at all*! Right now, I have a male and two female guppies in a tank and I *MADE SURE* that before I combined them that I'd have at least two stores to take them. I can also give them away on Craig's List if all else fails (plus, if that doesn't work, I can just get a giant tank and keep them together).

I do think breeding bettas is a risky venture. Personally, I'd try a less complex fish first. Such as platy fish or guppies. See how that goes

I do agree but at the same time I don't really. There can be alot more than just slime, BUT it does take time and money to make a decent profit from them and what I mean by a decent profit I mean maybe 250-500 a batch being that you got. I breed mainly for show betta's when I do so alot of mine start at $30 ea and ones that never got culled get sold to lfs, especially the ones that only give store credit. Then I use this store credit to buy the different foods and supplies needed, ie grow out tanks. I have a contract with a local fish store if i was to ever breed discus and sell to them I could only sell to them, at $20-$30 ea discus after they have gone through a 7 day quartine. Its not a bad contract when dealing with a fish like this cause I can mix a snake skin and cobalt blue together and get half and half so they get a variety. Other than that its usually always store credit is why I recommend auctions or your local club to sell them at. I have sold Halfmoons before for around $100 fully grown out with proven spawns. There is money in it just not normally selling to your lfs. I find using local freepress and other sites to post them for sale works best. Even having a website to sell them and be willing to ship and lose some gain if needed to make money. I have mentioned before the problem with lfs is its usually credit halfmoons and delta so exotic fish I sell to them cash or no deal! And the discus deal I have with them is mainly to sell to them only and I get cash or its store credit! The problem with store credit is this, I get all my supplies really cheap ie. sponge filters they sell for 10 ea I get them in bulk of 100 for 1 ea. The major issue is the only fish I have noticed that sells quick is saltwater and discus, the problem with bettas is they don't like to pay for them.

The money it takes to raise betta's is more than raising other fish if you do jarring, because you waste more water doing water changes... and lets face reality water isn't free I live in a house and have to pay for it every month. Adding a 55 gal tank is no big deal to the water bill but adding 8 55gal tanks I see a increase of maybe 5-10 a month so not really a big loss. After you have all the live foods its easy after that and not have to worry about baby food. Its after this initial investment you actually make the money back.. After that its all profit depending. Electricity running 8 55gal tanks is a increase of maybe 10-20 a month in my bill so not a huge amount but keep in mind I have 8 55gal tanks and also doing bettas again so this number might increase. When I sell a betta for 100 I more than make money from the deal but going to advance systems like a drip system could take along time to make that money back.

End resault is you can make money from it but it takes time and money to make money!

anyways I have to run I will check back later for replies

 

[Haych]

3 days later fry should be free swimming, it is now time to remove the male or he will eat them.

i thought the dad stayed with the babies as they fall away from the nest and he puts them back??

someone else on TFF bred some bettas, but took the dad out too early according to other members

 

[betta fish]

3 days later fry should be free swimming, it is now time to remove the male or he will eat them.

i thought the dad stayed with the babies as they fall away from the nest and he puts them back??

someone else on TFF bred some bettas, but took the dad out too early according to other members

Yes the dad stays with the fry for three days after they hatch and then he is removed, keeping him with the fry longer than three days can be risky as he may see them as food once they begin to swim horizontally rather than vertically, they are usually no longer dependent on him at this stage so that is correct