Some fish keepers are stupid

[AaronD]

Everyone has to rant once in a while.

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Ok, i agree with you on that one.. It just bugs me, every forum you go to on the net nowadays is full of newbie this newbie that. I think some people feel the need to go online and try and catch someone out...

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like i said, i agree everyone has the right to have a rant once in a while.. im merely surprised a moderator posted it. It is not often you see a moderator have a public moan..

ive not come on here to start a forum 'war' im just expressing my opinions when it comes to threads like this, and the attitude some members have towards 'newbies'... and thats it. I do not disagree with anything anyone has said as of yet, in fact if anything i agree, especially when Tokis-Phoenix talks about arrogant fish keepers..

 

[cyprinut]

And the arrogant ones are usually the last to help a newbie out.

Agree that the original post didn't need to made by a mod. That's part of the responsibility moderat(e)ing- you have to bite your tongue sometimes.

 

[John_Nicholson]

CFC that was the best post I have read in a long time......Fish keeping is like everything else on the planet. The more you put into it the more you get out. Too many people lean towards the lazy side of things these days. They don't want to discover knowledge. They feel entitled to it. The rest of the world is here to provide for them. I doubt it has a real name but I just call it the victim complex. No matter what happens it is never their fault. It is never that they rushed into the hobby unprepared. It is always the fault of the LFS, or a friend, or the rest of the world.....One thiing is for sure....it is never their fault. And fish keeping is not normally hard. I have a 4 year old that cares for a betta (I do the water changes), I have an 11 year old that has been breeding angels and bettas for several years. My 18 year old does not like to work hard at this but does raise a few electric yellows. I am a discus breeder so I guess they were probably raised a little different from some (they think changing water is a normal thing to do....) but it really is not hard. Everyone is a newby at some point and I try to remember that but how many times can you tell someone to research the fish before they buy, feed quality food, and change water? That is about 98% of fish keeping.

 

[Fella]

Everyone has to rant once in a while.

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Ok, i agree with you on that one.. It just bugs me, every forum you go to on the net nowadays is full of newbie this newbie that. I think some people feel the need to go online and try and catch someone out...

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like i said, i agree everyone has the right to have a rant once in a while.. im merely surprised a moderator posted it. It is not often you see a moderator have a public moan..

ive not come on here to start a forum 'war' im just expressing my opinions when it comes to threads like this, and the attitude some members have towards 'newbies'... and thats it. I do not disagree with anything anyone has said as of yet, in fact if anything i agree, especially when Tokis-Phoenix talks about arrogant fish keepers..

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Moderators are human beings. They're not immune to losing their temper, and they certainly shouldn't have to stop short of speaking their mind.



I've been a fishkeeper for less than a year, but it really bugs me when people say "I've just come back from the LFS, can you ID this fish please" or "give me more details on these fish!". If you were truly interested in a happy, healthy tank, and not just something that looks like colourful furniture, you'd surely research fish before you buy them? I can't believe people risk putting unknown fish into their home aquaria...

To blame LFS workers is irrelevant to the greater matter really. People should know all about their fish, and with books and the internet so readily available these days, there should almost be no need to to ask the LFS worker (who is a salesman remember). Sure, trusted LFS advice is superb, but if you can get advice from the internet and a book beforehand, surely you're halfway towards being a decent fishkeeper.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[AaronD]

And the arrogant ones are usually the last to help a newbie out.

Agree that the original post didn't need to made by a mod. That's part of the responsibility moderat(e)ing- you have to bite your tongue sometimes.

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cyprinut - i think were out numbered lol

nah fair goes to cfc for putting up with it, i just get bugged easily when it comes to 'newbie' debates.

I should really take the 'so be it' approach when it comes to 'newbie' discussions should i

 

[Fella]

And the arrogant ones are usually the last to help a newbie out.

Agree that the original post didn't need to made by a mod. That's part of the responsibility moderat(e)ing- you have to bite your tongue sometimes.

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Why? Surely a moderator has to move threads, offer good advice, lock the nuisance threads, and ban nuisance users?

I don't see why they're not allowed to speak their mind.

 

[kimbowee]

No war intended on my part either. Just feel a mod has even more right to complain than I do.

Like I previously said I am sorry to hear your first impressions may have been a bit of a bad one. I had tried several other forums before finally calling this one my home. I hated the responses I got. I would ask a question and get "What are you stupid?" Well, Yes I was, thats why I was looking for help. I didn't feel like I was being singled out because I was a newbie here. I'm sorry if you felt that way and hopefully it wasn't anything I ever said.

I don't think anyone on this board actually goes into a post meaning to chew someone out but it does happen. It can get very frustrating sometimes. People come in ask a question and then don't like the answer so they get defensive, or argumentative or even worse they keep asking the same question over and over hoping that someone here will give them an answer they like.

I know there was a time when I was afraid for Tokis to answer any of my posts. Sometimes things come out sounding a little more harsh then what was actually meant. Unfortunately the internet is a hard place to communicate on sometimes. You can never tell when someone is giving you the evil eye and don't know when someone is just having a bad day or possibly just being a smart a$$.

I don't think this was strictly a newbie debate. I think it was a statement in general. Some people have been keeping fish for years. It doesn't mean its been done the right way. Just because you have 10 goldfish in a 10 gal tank and they have been alive for 2 years doesn't mean its a good thing to do. If you spend 10 minutes typing up a post or looking up info for a person and they completely ignore you it can get quite frustrating.

Just thought I would try to explain, not trying to gang up on anyone. Just trying to express my feelings that we are all human and have a right to express our feelings occassionally and that includes mods. They do bite their tongues most of the time but shouldn't always have to.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[AaronD]

Can't we all just get along?

lol, i hope so, i wouldnt want to get banned, i havent even got 30 posts yet

i can understand everyones point of view on the moderator posting this. It must be very fustrating. I just think that a mod is supposed to keep law and order in such volatile places like 'internet forums' and this kind of thread does quite the opposite

 

[jacblades]

i can understand everyones point of view on the moderator posting this. It must be very fustrating. I just think that a mod is supposed to keep law and order in such volatile places like 'internet forums' and this kind of thread does quite the opposite

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i dont understand why the thread does the opposite.
i think cfc was posting this in response to the many "the lfs is so stupid" threads.

i remember at ime when the betta section was full of "i went to walmart today and it was awful" posts. wuv took a stand and now there is a rule against them.

but anyways, how is this thread violent or unlawful or [insert other adjective here]?
i see no reason for a mod to step into this thread.

 

[rdd1952]

There is a lot of truth in what CFC said though. Most of us don't do our research and depend on someone else to know the answers. We even still do it after we are more experienced. We come on here and post a problem we have and ask others for answers rather than Googling or even looking at pinned topics. Some of us are just lazy (raises hand). I do agree that people that work in fish stores should know more but the same thing applys. They are working at the local giant pet superstore making slightly over minimum wage, knowing they won't be there long and they aren't going to take the time and effort to learn a lot about fish. The first question you should ask someone in a fish store is "how many tanks do you have and how big are they?". If they say they don't have any tanks, just figure they aren't going to know a lot about fish.

As for the forum being friendly, I have been a member since mid-January. At that time I was a member of 2 other forums. Since then, this has become my only fourm. I still go back to look at the others occasionally but probably haven't posted 20 times total in the last 3 or 4 months on those sites. Most, and I emphasize "most", people here are very nice and friendly and if they come across as harsh, they probably don't mean to. We do all have one thing in common and that is our passion for fish and we want everyone, not just newbies, to take care of their fish and give them the best possible conditions to live in. After all, we were all newbies at one time, some more recently than others. Since I've only had a tank since Christmas of last year, I still consider myself a newbie. I have a LOT more to learn and I generally learn something new on here every day.

 

[rdd1952]

i remember at ime when the betta section was full of "i went to walmart today and it was awful" posts. wuv took a stand and now there is a rule against them.

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I wondered why they had disappeared. I kind of missed reading the daily "I hate Walmart" thread. I don't go to the betta forum as much as I used to. Is that why we don't ever see BettaMomma or RabbitLady posting any more?

 

[WILDER]

We all need a good moan now and then,before i even started fishkeeping i never agreed on keeping fish in tanks, i thought is was just as cruel as keeping birds in cages, and i still don't really agree with it, but i think at least I can offer them abit of a life, when they are just sat there the shoaling fish i feel awful as they look bored,so i'm still not convinced on keeping fish for are own selfish reasons.

 

[Paul_MTS]

totally agree CFC.

for you lot blaming it on the employees. yes they should know the species they keep to a certain extent, but if customers don't ask questions we can't answer them. If we stopped to play 20 questions with every single customer to make sure a fish was compatible then we would be working non-stop day and night to get through the customers.

in this day and age like already said all it takes is a bit of effort to do the research yourself.

so many times though my work is clearing up the mess made by another BAD shop a few minutes down the road from us, our manager is on the edge of going down there and having a go at the bloke there. They sell unsuitable fish for small tank, sell a full tanks worth of fish on the same day as the tank.

And all it takes is for the customer to look a bit deeper into the hobby before spending out on there lovely new tank.

Comments from a LFS employee!

 

[GirlinWayside]

Well, I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my questions. Ill admit that alot of times I just ask instead of searching for the answer myself. I dunno, I would rather hear "hands on" information I guess.

 

[dwarfgourami]

I would have agreed with you 100 % this morning CFC, but then I went into Petsat this afternoon and saw those tiny tanks, none more than 10 gallons, clearly labelled by the shop staff "suitable for 3 goldfish". Under those circumstances it is difficult to see how the shop staff can not be to blame. I can see why they might be pushed into making unsuitable sales by aggressive customers, but surely they are solely responsible for the labels they put up.
Personally, I think it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Some staff are brilliant, always wanting to learn more, some less so, some hobbyists are brilliant, others less so.
The bottomline is that anyone who buys a pet has a moral responsibility to find out about its needs, and anyone who sells a pet has the same moral responsibility. If you are not interested in learning more and more, then there is always the option not to keep pets- and not to work in a pet shop.