softening hard water without RODI Filter?

[LL234betta]

Hi I’m wondering if anyone can help with this issue?

I’m moving to an area with hard water, about 225 ppm from a soft water/moderately hard area.

I have African dwarf frogs in a ten gal planted. And a well behaved Betta in a twenty gal with eight neon tetras.

Ideally these animals don’t go into water harder than 140ppm from what I’ve read, so I am wondering if I can soften the water with aqua peat pellets, cattapa leaves and mixing deionised water into the hard water to ‘dilute’ it during changes.

With slow acclimation and the drip method, do you think this would be enough to give them the water quality they need?

Any recommendations or insight appreciated as I may have to re home these animals sadly if I can’t provide what they need.
Thank you

 

[MaloK]

If you are going to use deionised water. You don't really need any of the other methods to soften the water.

You will be able to make a mix that will be withing your desired range pretty easily.

For example, with your current ratio of 225 ppm you need to add around 35% of deionised water to reduce it close to 140 ppm.

But what are the parameters in your tank at the moment ?

 

[LL234betta]

Thanks for this, that’s good to hear.

Currently it’s 150-170ppm (varies slightly) so moderately hard. The ph is about 7- 7.5, and ammonia and nitrates 0.

I won’t need to add additional minerals as I’ve read this can be needed with deionised water?
Cheers

 

[MaloK]

No, since you dilute an excess of minerals in your source water.

You could go with 2/3 tap water and 1/3 deionised water.

Test it to see if it matches what you have in your tank.

If you are able. When you move, bring some of your current water with you to be able to restart the tank without having too much worries about acclimation to the new water chemistry.

Then with water changes slowly introduce them to your new water.

 

[LL234betta]

No, since you dilute an excess of minerals in your source water.

You could go with 2/3 tap water and 1/3 deionised water.

Test it to see if it matches what you have in your tank.

If you are able. When you move, bring some of your current water with you to be able to restart the tank without having too much worries about acclimation to the new water chemistry.

Then with water changes slowly introduce them to your new water.

That's great thanks for your help, much appreciated

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There is more to softening water than deionization. I have done this for years in one tank and I use an RO/DI unit. With the RO pnly I can get my TDS down to about 10 ppm. Adding the DI module and I get it to 0. My first unit was a 3 stage- carbone/RO/DI. This past year I replaced it with a 4 stage which added a sediment filter.

It is usually cheaper to make this sort of water than to be buying it. Over time the buying will cost much more than the making it. I spent about $130 for my first RO/DI unit and I batched many, many 100s of gallons through it before I replaced the RO membrane and carbon component. I spent about 75 on the replacements. I had the unit for almost 10 years before I got the new 4 stage.

I use a portable unit which comes ready to hook up to my utility sink which has a faucet that is compatible with a garden hose connection. It comes with the option of choosing an inline or a hose connection. It is ready to use out of the box. I got it here https://store.afwfilters.com/brands/afwfilters.html

I chose a 75 gpd portable system. I took it with me to weekend events when I was selling in the vendor room or from my hotel room when permitted. Look here on the above site https://store.afwfilters.com/portable-ro-systems/ I started with the Mikro 3 stage on the right and then replaced it with the 3 stage on the left.

edited for typos and spelling

 

[LL234betta]

Thanks for this, I was wondering for the short term whether de-ionised water is enough say 2 months, as I will need to save a bit for a good RO Unit which I think is more sustainable/reliable for the longer term?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Buying water in any forn is always costly as opposed to "making" it yourself. DI units remove ions, but there is more to the total hardness of ones water than just ions. Take the nitrogen cycle. Ammonia in NH3 and not an ion. But most of ammonia in water becomes ammonium which is an ion. Nitrate and nitrate are also ions.

An ion is an atom or molecule with a net electrical charge. The charge of an electron is considered to be negative by convention and this charge is equal and opposite to the charge of a proton, which is considered to be positive by convention.

If an atom, or atoms, has a balanced number of electrons (negative charge) and protons (positive charge) they are neutral overall. However, if they are not balanced, they will be charged. These charged species are called ions.

Basically an ion is created by the gaining or the loss of one or more electrons which results in a + or - charge.

Here is how DI works:

In deionization, water flows through a bed of resin beads that have positive or negative charges. Positively charged resin attracts and traps negative anions, while negatively charged resin attracts and traps positive cations.

But, the above does not help with other things that also contribute to the potential total hardness/TDS of any water. There are a variety of solids that will dissolve in water and which are not ions. These must be removed via an RO membrane placed before the DI resin. This prevents those solids from building up and interfering with the DI media. Moreover, a carbon filter before the water hits the RO and DI `components will also remove many things from water.

So, depending on what might need to remove from their tap water before using itin a tank will pretty much determine how much of the 3 basic removal modules one should use. Because we have some sediment and rust in our water, I added the sediment filter. This is sort of like why we might have a pre-filter on the intake of our tank filters.

edited for typos and spelling mistakes

 

[Lcc86]

Not sure where in the UK you're based but have a look for Spotless Water near you if you don't have space/money for a RO/DI unit. I use 1 25 litre bottle each week on my two tanks, along with some tap water, as I keep ADF's and scarlet badis and my tap water is rock hard.

 

[LL234betta]

Buying water in any forn is always costly as opposed to "making" it yourself. DI units remove ions, but there is more to the total hardness of ones water than just ions. Take the nitrogen cycle. Ammonia in NH3 and not an ion. But most of ammonia in water becomes ammonium which is an ion. Nitrate and nitrate are also ions.





Basically an ion is created by the gaining or the loss of one or more electrons which results in a + or - charge.

Here is how DU works:


But, the above does not help with other things that also contribute to the potential total hardness/TDS of any water. There are a variety of solids that will disolve in water and which are not ions. These must be removed via an RO membrane placed before the DI resin. This prevents those solids from building up and interfering with the DI media. Moreover, a carbon filter before the water hits the RO and DI `components will also remove many things from water.

So, depending on what might need to remove from their tap water before using itin a tank will pretty much determine how much or the 3 basic removal modules one should use. Because we have some sediment and rust in our water, I added the sediment filter. This is sort of like why we might have a pre-filter on the intake of our tank filters.

Thanks for this, I'll bear it in mind and will invest in a RODI

 

[LL234betta]

Not sure where in the UK you're based but have a look for Spotless Water near you if you don't have space/money for a RO/DI unit. I use 1 25 litre bottle each week on my two tanks, along with some tap water, as I keep ADF's and scarlet badis and my tap water is rock hard.

That's good to hear, what water do you use? RO or deionised or another type? And is it roughly 1/3 bottled water and 2/3rds tap? Be good to know your ratios for reference. I'll be devon based, so limescale a big issue

 

[Lcc86]

That's good to hear, what water do you use? RO or deionised or another type? And is it roughly 1/3 bottled water and 2/3rds tap? Be good to know your ratios for reference. I'll be devon based, so limescale a big issue

I use RO water and remineralise it so that it's "soft". I'm in the southeast so my water is ridiculously hard. I only add about 5 litres of tap water.

It's good to get the API gH and kH tests as you need to try and adjust your softness gradually at each water change, I mix mine up beforehand and test it to make sure its accurate.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

And here is the part of this I did not stress above. When it comes to changing parameters in our tanks we have only two choices. One is to be adding something and the other is to be removing something. The first is almost always a lot easier to do and to manage than the latter. It is a lot harder to make salt water drinkable than it is to make drinkable water salty.

 

[anewbie]

There is more to softening water than deionization. I have done this for years in one tank and I use an RO/DI unit. With the RO pnly I can get my TDS down to about 10 ppm. Adding the DI module and I get it to 0. My first unit was a 3 stage- carbone/RO/DI. This past year I replaced it with a 4 stage which added a sediment filter.

It is usually cheaper to make this sort of water than to be buying it. Over time the buying will cost much more than the making it. I spent about $130 for my first RO/DI unit and I batched many, many 100s of gallons through it before I replaced the RO membrane and carbon component. I spent about 75 on the replacements. I had the unit for almost 10 years before I got the new 4 stage.

I use a portable unit which comes ready to hook up to my utility sink which has a faucet that is compatible with a garden hose connection. It comes with the option of choosing an inline or a hose connection. It is ready to use out of the box. I got it here https://store.afwfilters.com/brands/afwfilters.html

I chose a 75 gpd portable system. I took it with me to weekend events when I was selling in the vendor room or from my hotel room when permitted. Look here on the above site https://store.afwfilters.com/portable-ro-systems/ I started with the Mikro 3 stage on the right and then replaced it with the 3 stage on the left.

edited for typos and spelling

My ro unit (which uses a 500 gpd membrane and booster pump) gets around 4 tds prior to di stage and approx 1-2 tds after di.

My tap water (which plays a role in ro/di unit performance is approx 140 tds not sure if you are wonderful city ny tap or if you are out in the country with a well.

I know nothing about frogs so no comment on the water they need the beta would not suffer from softer water though i'm not sure it is mandatory for the species you ahve - there are beta that require blackwater.

My lowest ec aquarium are the discus aquarium ec 20 (200 gallon) and the sp bluketa aquarium which also have ec 20 (ec is approx tds x 2 so approx 10 tds each). Both of these are true blackwater aquarium with almost no measurable minerals.

 

[Ceez]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083P4HZP...artDisabled=true&sbo=RZvfv//HxDF+O5021pAnSA==


I dont know if that's available in the UK but it's the one I use. The filters are easy to change and relatively inexpensive. Im mixing tap with RODI and looking for 2 things, TDS and lowering my PH. My tap water comes out at 20ppm nitrates and 7.6-7.8 PH. With this unit it makes zero TDS water and i mix it with my tap to get it to somewhere between 40-60ppm TDS which in turn by default keeps my water at 7.0 PH. My fish breed well in this water so it's my method.

Good luck