Shrimp and Nitrates

[MuddyWaters]

All, I have a shrimp tank that is 15 gallons. In it, I have cherry shrimp (about 50), amano shrimp (3) and ghost shrimp (5). btw- Ghost shrimp are cool! they should not be just feeders ...although I hope these reproduce so I can feed the offspring to my other fishies.

Anyway, my nitrate hovers around 30ppm. I was controlling it by doing big water changes, but I'm pretty sure that was killing my shrimp, so now I'm doing smaller ones less frequently- 2.5 gallons about once per week.

I also have a lot of plants in the tank. I've removed one really big one and will be removing/adding others as I go. This stirs up the substrate and exposes places I was not able to vacuum before. I think this is adding to the nitrates- I had tabs planted in the substrate there and when I vacuum I pull up black water. I'm sure a fair amount of the detritus disturbed by the re-scape activity is getting in the filter.

Anyway, I think 30ppm is too much. I've read that by 40ppm they'll start showing signs of stress. I don't want to get there and would rather be far away. I also checked my tap water and it's about 5ppm, so most of it is coming from what I'm doing in the tank.

I am a well known chronic over-feeder, but am working on mending my ways. I have a note on top of my tank right now that says "DON'T FEED UNTIL THURSDAY." This includes the 6 sunshine neon tetras and the several black bar endlers I have in there. There is enough laying around to keep them happy for a few days for sure.

Here's my plan- please let me know if I'm in the right direction or if there are other things I should consider:

1. Don't feed Mon - Wed. Feed a few grains of Shrimp Cuisine and fish flakes on Thursday.
2. Every day, take out 64 oz of water and replace it. Monitor GH to keep it at 125ppm (7 degrees)
3. Next weekend, do another 2.5 gallon water change (again, checking to keep the GH stable)

Repeat the above, only feeding on Thur - Sun and feed less than I think they need (then it should be about normal- I grew up a member of the "clean plate club" so more is always better in my mind- i have to fight against that).

I'm hoping this will reduce the nitrates without negatively impacting the fish in other ways.


thoughts? thank you!!

 

[MaloK]

I agree that 30ppm of nitrate is too high even 20. If you are able to bring it to 0 would be the best. You can do larger water changes by adding water at the same time you remove some. It's easier on the stability of the water.

You don't mention the plants you have, Frogbit, any of the Duckweeds, Azolla, the smaller species of Salvinia are ideal to wash nitrates off a tank.

Uneaten decaying fish flakes was for me the biggest contributor in that factor.

I stopped using them years ago and favoured small pellets and granules under good control.

Then my water quality improved greatly without effort.

 

[MuddyWaters]

Thanks MaloK. Good idea on the plants. I got a little bit of duckweed with the shrimp I bought at the club, so maybe it'll grow and take some of that nitrate. I wonder if water sprite would do the same? I know I can float it and it grows like crazy too.

Not sure how I'd add the water at the same time I'm removing it. I have to put in additives to get the GH higher- my water is very soft.

I don't use flakes that much, but I did just start using them. Good point and I will stop. Seems like the fish like pellets way more anyway.

Honestly, I think I need therapy LOL. I have a note on the top of my aquarium to NOT feed them, but I couldn't help it. They looked so hungry! I did keep it to a bare minimum, though. [sigh] Hopefully the floating plants will help because obviously I have a hard time not feeding.

 

[gwand]

Thanks MaloK. Good idea on the plants. I got a little bit of duckweed with the shrimp I bought at the club, so maybe it'll grow and take some of that nitrate. I wonder if water sprite would do the same? I know I can float it and it grows like crazy too.

Not sure how I'd add the water at the same time I'm removing it. I have to put in additives to get the GH higher- my water is very soft.

I don't use flakes that much, but I did just start using them. Good point and I will stop. Seems like the fish like pellets way more anyway.

Honestly, I think I need therapy LOL. I have a note on the top of my aquarium to NOT feed them, but I couldn't help it. They looked so hungry! I did keep it to a bare minimum, though. [sigh] Hopefully the floating plants will help because obviously I have a hard time not feeding.

Here’s my solution to not over feeding my shrimp. Never use flake food. On day One I provide one 5mm stick of Dennerel King Shrimp for every 20 shrimp. On day two I drop one shrimps pro seafood patty into the tank. On day three I drop one Top Fin Algae Thin wafer. Then I repeat the cycle and conclude with a fasting day.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello Muddy. You may already know this, but nitrates need to be lower for shrimp than fish. Fish will be fine with nitrates in the 30 ppm range. Where shrimp won't tolerate nitrates this high. 20 ppm is generally high for them. You'll need to be more aggressive with your water changes. 50 percent removed and replaced every three to four days for your shrimp is about right.

10

 

[MaloK]

I have 2 small tanks and they both require very different water hardness. I prepare the whole bucket as soft water for the betta 40-60GH, 10-20KH, 7.2-7.4 PH when finished his water change there is half left. I add SaltyShrimps mineral until my KH reaches 40ppm then complete my GH to 140ppm with Calcium Chloride. The resulting water is 120-140GH, 50-60KH, 7.8-8.0PH. With sufficient carbonate hardness, I do not focus too much on the resulting PH as long as it's not roller coasting.

Since I'm really cheap on water changes. 1/3 per month, I run activated carbon one week after water changes and then remove it and resume plant fertilization for 3 weeks. This insure that no undetected chemical / fertilizer excess / toxin builds up. I check the water parameters and am ready to intervene at any time, add what it needs on regular basis. At the moment it's Almond leave extract for the betta and Calcium Chloride for the shrimps. I expect that the Calcium demand will reduce at some point, but not by much.

I don't know a lot about your setup, But in most shrimp tank with a powered filter, a good (couple times a week) maintenance of your pre-filter will remove a lot of the primordial matter that is turning to nitrates right there.

It will also make the maintenance of the filter media a lot more straight forward and less frequent.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello again. You could also introduce some floating plants. These are some that will remove excess nutrients from the tank water and with a sound water change routine, reduce your nitrates. Any of the water weeds are good Anacharis, Water sprite and Horn wort. Also, Duckweed and Dwarf Water Lettuce. But, these two are banned in some states.

10

 

[MuddyWaters]

UPDATE -

Today I added a bit of water sprite and water wisteria that I pruned from the big tank when I did a water change. Those all floating, along with the hornwort and a little bit of duckweed that came with the shrimp I bought over the weekend will hopefully help with the nitrates.

I have also continued to take out 64 oz of water (2 big cups from a Braves game) and replace it, and I managed NOT to feed the fish or the shrimp today! Woo hoo! Hoping to drop the nitrates to a much lower level. Will skip the feeding and change the small amount of water again tomorrow and test the nitrates to see if it's helping.

I tend to change the water a lot in that tank because it became a habit when I had bad beard algae and had neglected it for awhile. I don't need to, I just tend to do it a lot. With the shrimp I have reduced the frequency from every other/every 3rd day to once a week and have cut the amount from 5 gallons (of a 15 gallon tank) to 2.5 gallons.
I keep the KH at about 2dKH (haven't worried with it too much- it's 1dkh coming out of the tap) and I keep the GH at 7 or 8dGH - around 125-130ppm. I have a couple of pieces of Rubble Zone in the filter intake (it has 3 chambers- 1 for intake, 2nd is sponge & biomedia, 3rd is return) and use a GH booster made for shrimp that has magnesium and some other stuff in it. I don't bother with the PH much, but last I checked it was about 7.6 or so, I think. I focus mostly on the GH. It seems to be working pretty well. They dying I had early on seems to have subsided (knock on wood).

Early on I didn't realize how important stable conditions are, so I was doing big, frequent water changes and I think that killed a lot of them off. Now if I can get this nitrate thing down without having to change so much water, I'll be in good shape. Thanks everyone for all your help, as always!

 

[MuddyWaters]

UPDATE:

I changed the water Saturday (2.5 gallons of a 15 gallon tank), squeezed out the sponge real good and I've been feeding less. Two days ago, I added a bunch of red root floaters that I ordered to help work on soaking up the nitrates.
I had stopped doing the 64 oz daily water change. That was a mistake. I thought that all the plants I have (I also added a water wisteria cutting from my other tank) would soak up the nitrates, but they're not working yet. I tested today and they were about 40ppm. That's horrible. I have seen a couple of shrimp die, but others seem to be doing well. The fish (sunshine neon tetra and black bar endlers) are doing great.

I have also started adding the Bacter AE according to the instructions. It says 1 scoop per 30 gallons, so I'm doing half a scoop per day. I turn the filter off for 10 minutes to let it settle and then turn it back on.

I really want to do at least a 5 gallon water change, but I'm afraid to do it because of the likely instability. My water is naturally soft, so when I change it, I have to add some GH booster, etc. to make sure it's around 7 or 8 dGH- it's 8 right now which is right where I want it (I think that's 130 -140). I did go ahead and change the 64 oz of water, but I can't imagine it's going to make much of a dent.

Should I give it a few more days to let the plants do their work or should I go ahead and do a big water change?

EDIT- I meant to add pictures so you can see the plants I added. I also think it looks pretty good even if it is a death-camp for shrimp at the moment. (I'm being facetious but this is really getting me down- I can't stand not providing a good environment for my little guys)
From the front:

From the top- LOTS of floating plants now- hope they suck up that pile of nitrate.

 

[MuddyWaters]

crap I just looked up whether Bacter AE can spike nitrates....it can. I think that's what's causing it. Dangit, why didn't I do that before?

 

[MaloK]

UPDATE:

I changed the water Saturday (2.5 gallons of a 15 gallon tank), squeezed out the sponge real good and I've been feeding less. Two days ago, I added a bunch of red root floaters that I ordered to help work on soaking up the nitrates.
I had stopped doing the 64 oz daily water change. That was a mistake. I thought that all the plants I have (I also added a water wisteria cutting from my other tank) would soak up the nitrates, but they're not working yet. I tested today and they were about 40ppm. That's horrible. I have seen a couple of shrimp die, but others seem to be doing well. The fish (sunshine neon tetra and black bar endlers) are doing great.

I have also started adding the Bacter AE according to the instructions. It says 1 scoop per 30 gallons, so I'm doing half a scoop per day. I turn the filter off for 10 minutes to let it settle and then turn it back on.

I really want to do at least a 5 gallon water change, but I'm afraid to do it because of the likely instability. My water is naturally soft, so when I change it, I have to add some GH booster, etc. to make sure it's around 7 or 8 dGH- it's 8 right now which is right where I want it (I think that's 130 -140). I did go ahead and change the 64 oz of water, but I can't imagine it's going to make much of a dent.

Should I give it a few more days to let the plants do their work or should I go ahead and do a big water change?

You need to balance minerals completely of your water "before" the water changes. bring it "in the bucket" to the same levels you want in the tank.

This is the part that makes the hobby interesting.

Bacter AE is a supplement, AND the instruction clearly stipulates to "start slowly". If your tank has already a lot of decaying matter, (wasted food) it will just enhance this process. I'm using 40 milligrams at the moment for my tank. you should have started with a quarter of that you are currently using.

And... You are still overfeeding. I think you need to focus more on the fishes and let the shrimps work a little more.

Or...

Feed the fish less and let them steal a bit from the shrimps. The fishes are the most likely to miss and leave uneaten food go to waste. So if you are feeding the shrimps on top of that...

I don't know how much you put in there, but One or the Other.

In Quebec, Like the chickens say. Cut, Cut, Cut !!!

 

[MuddyWaters]

You need to balance minerals completely of your water "before" the water changes. bring it "in the bucket" to the same levels you want in the tank.

This is the part that makes the hobby interesting.

Bacter AE is a supplement, AND the instruction clearly stipulates to "start slowly". If your tank has already a lot of decaying matter, (wasted food) it will just enhance this process. I'm using 40 milligrams at the moment for my tank. you should have started with a quarter of that you are currently using.

And... You are still overfeeding. I think you need to focus more on the fishes and let the shrimps work a little more.

Or...

Feed the fish less and let them steal a bit from the shrimps. The fishes are the most likely to miss and leave uneaten food go to waste. So if you are feeding the shrimps on top of that...

I don't know how much you put in there, but One or the Other.

In Quebec, Like the chickens say. Cut, Cut, Cut !!!

Thanks, MaloK. I have been feeding only the fish, and even that sparingly, so I've done better. However, given the amount of Bacter AE I was putting in, especially knowing that the nitrates, although going down, were still too high, made it worse.

Cut cut for sure. They're all going to do without for a few days. I think tomorrow I will do a 2.5 gallon water change and, rather than eyeballing the amount of GH booster, go ahead and test it prior to it getting in the tank as you suggest.

Good stuff- much appreciated.

 

[MaloK]

Thanks, MaloK. I have been feeding only the fish, and even that sparingly, so I've done better. However, given the amount of Bacter AE I was putting in, especially knowing that the nitrates, although going down, were still too high, made it worse.

Cut cut for sure. They're all going to do without for a few days. I think tomorrow I will do a 2.5 gallon water change and, rather than eyeballing the amount of GH booster, go ahead and test it prior to it getting in the tank as you suggest.

Good stuff- much appreciated.

Making a soup that will remain with a clear broth is not easy.

For the moment my toughs are that... If you prefer that tank to be hosting healthy and happy shrimps.

"If you can, rehouse the fishes" easily... And Get a hand on the tank stability first.

Note that if you introduced a lots of shrimps and are maintaining a large population from the beginning. there will be a good % of death.

Only the fittest survives.

 

[MuddyWaters]

I went ahead and did a 2.5 gallon water change. I tested the GH and had it at 8 before adding to the tank. Hoping it will have a positive effect.

 

[MuddyWaters]

UPDATE: After doing a 2.5 gallon water change on 21st and then another on the 24th, I figured I'd be in much better shape. I made sure the water was the right GH before adding to the tank. I haven't seen any dead shrimp and there are signs of pending new life, so feeling pretty good.

I have been barely feeding the fish, and I have tons of plants, many of which are floating. Should take care of the nitrates, right?

Dadgummit- I checked the nitrates yesterday and they were at least 30 again. So frustrating!! I did another 2.5 gallon water change and washed out the filter sponge again (just squeeze it out a couple of times in clean treated water). I don't understand what is creating these nitrates at levels that the plants can't eat up. The floaters are red-root floaters, duck weed and some hornwort- they're all growing very well. Should be plenty to take care of it.

I guess "barely" feeding fish is more than I think, although I swear it's a few pellet grains a day and that's it. I'll skip a few days and see....I'm gonna get those nitrates down one way or another.

Edit: I forgot that I did add another slice of zucchini- they at literally the whole thing, so it didn't rot in the tank, but still, maybe that's a source. They will not be getting their veggies for a few days!