Hi there. I'm setting up a new 15 gallon tank, and have not added any fish yet. I rinsed filters from two of my mature tanks into the water of the new tank, and all sorts of lovely gunk came out. A couple days later the water was cloudy looking, but unfortunately fibers from the filters I had used were hanging all over the plants. So I vacuumed the tank, rinsed off the plants, and changed about 80% of the water to get rid of them. But there's still residue of old food and poop in the water from the original filters. Now, I'm unsure of what to do next. Should I re-seed? (I have a sponge I can use instead of the fibrous filters.) Do I need to add an ammonia source to keep things going? If I can't get pure ammonia from a store (it's hard to get around here), then is it safe to add a fish at this point? Or is the remaining gunk in the tank enough to keep the cycle going? Thanks for any help you can give me!
Seeded New Tank? Now What?
- Thread starter luckyd
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no you need to take the mature sponge and put it in the filter of the new tank then you need to add pure ammonia to around 3-4ppm squeezing mature media into the tank wont do that much really its the filter you need to seed
Sources of Bacteria:
While it is probable that the bacteria required for the conversion of ammonia and nitrite to nitrate exist at very low levels in most uncycled tanks, it greatly accelerates the process to inoculate the tank with a large dose of healthy bacteria to get things started. Good sources of beneficial bacteria are ranked from best to least:
1) Filter material (floss, sponge, biowheel, etc.) from an established, disease free tank.
2) Live Plants (preferrably potted, leave the rockwool on until cycling is finished). Crypts or amazon swords are good choices, and not too demanding.
3) Gravel from an established, disease free tank. (Many lfs will give this away if asked nicely)
4) Other ornaments (driftwood, rocks, etc.) from an established tank.
5) Squeezings from a filter sponge (any lfs should be willing to do this...)
There are also a number of commercial bacterial supplements (Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc.) available. IMHO, without getting on a soapbox, these have very little to no effect, and are best left on the shelf. If you want to try it, go ahead, but I believe that any of the above options will be more effective, and most if not all of them will be cheaper.
Sources of Ammonia:
The most difficult part of the fishless cycling procedure, according to many postings on the message boards, involves finding a good source of ammonia. Ammonia used should be free of surfactants, perfumes, and colourants. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to ACS grade ammonium hydroxide. Always read the ingredients on the bottle. The best sources for Pure or Clear Ammonia are discount grocery stores or hardware stores. Often, the no-name brand is the stuff you're looking for. Some other people have reported success with the following brand names of ammonia: Top Crest or Whirl Clear Ammonia. To paraphrase RTR: If it doesn't list the ingredients, or say Clear Ammonia (or Pure Ammonia or 100% Ammonia, or Pure Ammonium Hydroxide), then leave it on the shelf and look elsewhere. Shake the bottle if you're not sure about it... ammonia with surfactants will foam, while good ammonia will not.
Water Changes and Ammonia Removing Chemicals:
A large water change (50-70%) should be done before adding any fish to the tank to lower nitrate levels, which can be a pain to bring down later. When changing the water during a fishless cycle, do NOT use dechlorinators that also sequester ammonia, such as the very popular Amquel. I have heard from at least one individual who did everything right with regards to cycling her tank using this method... the tank cycled quickly, then she did a water change, then added a reasonable fishload the following day with more than adequate filtration, and observed both an ammonia and a nitrite spike. The only explanation that I could think of after questioning her extensively led back to the Amquel. In a normal, established fish tank, the ammonia is being generated nearly constantly... in a fishless cycle however, the ammonia is added as a daily dose... IMO, it's concievable (though not really provable unless a lot more people experienced identical problems) that the Amquel temporarily deprived the bacteria of its food source, causing a minor die-back in the colony at the worst possible time... right before adding her fish. To be on the safe side, use a simple chlorine/chloriamine remover which does not affect your ammonia levels.
By similar logic, any other ammonia removing chemicals (eg. Ammo-lock) or resins (Amrid) should also be avoided while cycling... they will affect the cycle, extending it's duration or otherwise adversely affecting the bacterial colonies.
Too Much Ammonia?:
It IS possible to add too much ammonia to the tank (generally several times the amounts suggested in either recipe), as some individuals discovered by mistake (thanks Boozap). What happens in this case is that the ammonia will spike very far off the chart then the nitrite will spike as well (also way off the chart), and it will continue to spike for a very long time. Why? There are a couple of possibilities... the first is that the filter media and surfaces in the tank or oxygen levels are simply insufficient to grow and maintain a bacterial colony massive enough to convert all of the ammonia and all of the nitrite to nitrates. Another likely possibility is that the ammonia levels are high enough to inhibit growth (through a biofeedback mechanism) of the bacteria rather than promoting it. The solution is quite simple, however. If you realize that you've added way too much ammonia simply do a water change, or if necessary a series of water changes to bring the ammonia and/or nitrite levels back into the readable range on your test kit. Then proceed as normal with daily additions of ammonia until the tank is cycled.
Sources of Bacteria:
While it is probable that the bacteria required for the conversion of ammonia and nitrite to nitrate exist at very low levels in most uncycled tanks, it greatly accelerates the process to inoculate the tank with a large dose of healthy bacteria to get things started. Good sources of beneficial bacteria are ranked from best to least:
1) Filter material (floss, sponge, biowheel, etc.) from an established, disease free tank.
2) Live Plants (preferrably potted, leave the rockwool on until cycling is finished). Crypts or amazon swords are good choices, and not too demanding.
3) Gravel from an established, disease free tank. (Many lfs will give this away if asked nicely)
4) Other ornaments (driftwood, rocks, etc.) from an established tank.
5) Squeezings from a filter sponge (any lfs should be willing to do this...)
There are also a number of commercial bacterial supplements (Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc.) available. IMHO, without getting on a soapbox, these have very little to no effect, and are best left on the shelf. If you want to try it, go ahead, but I believe that any of the above options will be more effective, and most if not all of them will be cheaper.
Sources of Ammonia:
The most difficult part of the fishless cycling procedure, according to many postings on the message boards, involves finding a good source of ammonia. Ammonia used should be free of surfactants, perfumes, and colourants. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to ACS grade ammonium hydroxide. Always read the ingredients on the bottle. The best sources for Pure or Clear Ammonia are discount grocery stores or hardware stores. Often, the no-name brand is the stuff you're looking for. Some other people have reported success with the following brand names of ammonia: Top Crest or Whirl Clear Ammonia. To paraphrase RTR: If it doesn't list the ingredients, or say Clear Ammonia (or Pure Ammonia or 100% Ammonia, or Pure Ammonium Hydroxide), then leave it on the shelf and look elsewhere. Shake the bottle if you're not sure about it... ammonia with surfactants will foam, while good ammonia will not.
Water Changes and Ammonia Removing Chemicals:
A large water change (50-70%) should be done before adding any fish to the tank to lower nitrate levels, which can be a pain to bring down later. When changing the water during a fishless cycle, do NOT use dechlorinators that also sequester ammonia, such as the very popular Amquel. I have heard from at least one individual who did everything right with regards to cycling her tank using this method... the tank cycled quickly, then she did a water change, then added a reasonable fishload the following day with more than adequate filtration, and observed both an ammonia and a nitrite spike. The only explanation that I could think of after questioning her extensively led back to the Amquel. In a normal, established fish tank, the ammonia is being generated nearly constantly... in a fishless cycle however, the ammonia is added as a daily dose... IMO, it's concievable (though not really provable unless a lot more people experienced identical problems) that the Amquel temporarily deprived the bacteria of its food source, causing a minor die-back in the colony at the worst possible time... right before adding her fish. To be on the safe side, use a simple chlorine/chloriamine remover which does not affect your ammonia levels.
By similar logic, any other ammonia removing chemicals (eg. Ammo-lock) or resins (Amrid) should also be avoided while cycling... they will affect the cycle, extending it's duration or otherwise adversely affecting the bacterial colonies.
Too Much Ammonia?:
It IS possible to add too much ammonia to the tank (generally several times the amounts suggested in either recipe), as some individuals discovered by mistake (thanks Boozap). What happens in this case is that the ammonia will spike very far off the chart then the nitrite will spike as well (also way off the chart), and it will continue to spike for a very long time. Why? There are a couple of possibilities... the first is that the filter media and surfaces in the tank or oxygen levels are simply insufficient to grow and maintain a bacterial colony massive enough to convert all of the ammonia and all of the nitrite to nitrates. Another likely possibility is that the ammonia levels are high enough to inhibit growth (through a biofeedback mechanism) of the bacteria rather than promoting it. The solution is quite simple, however. If you realize that you've added way too much ammonia simply do a water change, or if necessary a series of water changes to bring the ammonia and/or nitrite levels back into the readable range on your test kit. Then proceed as normal with daily additions of ammonia until the tank is cycled.
I often do much the same thing that you are doing. I wash out a filter or two in a new tank, with the new filter running, and get a great leg up on a new filter cycle. As you have surmised, the new filter will need regular dosing of ammonia to keep things going forward. I use the fishless cycle approach on my filters to prove that they are ready to support a decent sized bacterial colony. I find that in most cases, the new filter shows itself as cycled within a week although a recent experience has taken a full 9 days before my new auction fish were safe in their new tank.
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