Recommended Reading?

[SmokedPaprika]

Hi,

I'm currently the very proud owner of a rehomed betta, but I've been lurking in the New World cichlid section for a while. I don't have room for any of these beauties at the moment but I find them fascinating, so I was wondering whether any of you lovely people could recommend me any books on them? No harm in a little research, after all...

Ideally I'd like something that gives general info on lots of different species, including some more unusual types not usually found in your average LFS - just to get a feel for the range of fish in the hobby. I'm in love with Severums in particular, so anything Sev-specific would be great too!

Thank you

 

[Wills]

Hi Ahh a new member with good taste
 
If your after new worlds your going to need a bigger tank Is generally something you will learn to live with! The other thing you will probably learn to live with is a six foot tank haha! Not necessary for all of them but if you like the rarities often some of them are pretty large
 
New Worlds is actually quite a broad spectrum of fish that get grouped up. I like to split it like this - Central Americans and South Americans - some people group Madagascan Cichlids and Riverine African Cichlids in here as well so best to split that group as well as they are even more diverse! But then within that there are so many variants for all kinds of set ups - from mega aggressive wet pets like Umbriferum right down to tiny timid dwarfs like Laetacara Dorsiger
 
My favorite source for Central Americans is Lee Nutall http://leecichlids.blogspot.co.uk/%C2
 
South Americans - Jeff Rapps home page tangledupincichlids.com is a great source and so is this http/www.lem.net/alf/index-eng.htm the famous Alf Stahlsberg Great source particularly for mid sized, rare cichlids
 
Seriouslyfish.com is a great site with fantastic profiles and info on a lot of cichlids
 
 
What kind of set up are you thinking of? What size tank? Are you set on any already? Maybe I can point you in the right direction to find real rarities like Inca Stone Fish or Cichlasoma Boucourti (depending on what kind of tank you go for )
 
Wills

 

[SmokedPaprika]

Hi

Ahh a new member with good taste

 
If your after new worlds your going to need a bigger tank

Is generally something you will learn to live with! The other thing you will probably learn to live with is a six foot tank haha! Not necessary for all of them but if you like the rarities often some of them are pretty large

 
New Worlds is actually quite a broad spectrum of fish that get grouped up. I like to split it like this - Central Americans and South Americans - some people group Madagascan Cichlids and Riverine African Cichlids in here as well so best to split that group as well as they are even more diverse! But then within that there are so many variants for all kinds of set ups - from mega aggressive wet pets like Umbriferum right down to tiny timid dwarfs like Laetacara Dorsiger

 
My favorite source for Central Americans is Lee Nutall
 
South Americans - Jeff Rapps home page tangledupincichlids.com is a great source and so is this http/www.lem.net/alf/index-eng.htm the famous Alf Stahlsberg

Great source particularly for mid sized, rare cichlids
 
Seriouslyfish.com is a great site with fantastic profiles and info on a lot of cichlids
 
 
What kind of set up are you thinking of? What size tank? Are you set on any already? Maybe I can point you in the right direction to find real rarities like Inca Stone Fish or Cichlasoma Boucourti (depending on what kind of tank you go for

)
 
Wills

 
Hi Wills!  Thanks for the brilliant reply, loads of great info there
 
This is all hypothetical at the moment; I genuinely don't have space for a suitable tank, I live in a one up one down with a postage stamp garden I had to do some rearranging for even my little betta tank to fit; I'd probably have to throw out the sofa to put in a cichlid tank!  I'm hoping to move to a bigger place in a few months, but it isn't settled yet; in the meantime I'm trying to read up so I don't do anything too stupid.
 
Ideally what I'd like is a wet pet scenario; I know Oscars are the classic and I think Sevs are gorgeous; JDs are beautiful too, but I've heard they aren't too interactive?  I'm definitely open to other suggestions though, I like the idea of something out of the ordinary.  Plants - couldn't care less that cichlids dig them up, I have a black thumb anyway, it'd be fake all the way!
 
I'd also like a big pleco in there, and the jury's out on other tankmates, mostly because I'm not sure which cichlids might be compatible with what other fish...I suppose I'd be looking at 75g+?
 
I never knew that Madagascans and Riverine Africans could come under the New World heading too...I don't know much about them at all.  Would I be better picking just one geographical area and selecting my stock from there, or can you combine the areas?  I know Africans and New Worlds can't usually mix; is it any different with Madagascans and Riverines?
 
Sorry about the gazillion questions!

 

[Wills]

Ah Im sure you could fit a tank in haha!! I had my six footer in a one bed flat
 
A 75g is a good starting point but as you say its all hypothetical so its really tough to plan ahead really
 
With the Madagascan and Riverines - it depends who you talk to but on the most part you can sort of mix them but its down to what you choose with what. For examples Kribs are from Africa but mix okay in most tanks with Americans, Madagascans are so rare though that usually people set up a biotope (or rough biotope) around them.
 
I would stick to one area - for me thats the best way to get the most out of a New World Cichlid - the diversity in each is more than enough and it works to make a well structured tank rather than a tank of bruisers from all over the place.
 
Wills

 

[SmokedPaprika]

Ah Im sure you could fit a tank in haha!! I had my six footer in a one bed flat

 
Haha, fab!  Maybe I just need to think about my space a bit more - although with the possibility of a move, I don't want to get a big tank set up and then have to shift it, so research it is, for now.
 
My thought was that if I decide which fish I want in the early stages, I can work out what a good tank size for them would be - that way I don't end up getting something unsuitable or have to worry about loads of upgrades.

 

[Wills]

Yeah I see what your doing
 
If you had to choose which group of New Worlds you went for which one would it be? Would you do a Dwarf South American tank,a medium social South American tank, a larger social South American tank, a larger tough South American tank, a mid sized tough/social Central American tank or a large sized rough and tough Central American tank. I can run some lists together of what I would do if you like for a few of these
 
All I will say with tank size is - try and get a 6 foot tank. You have listed off some big cichlids already and I just think if you start off with a 4 foot 75g it will just be the start of the upgrades haha!!
 
There are a ton of bargains out there at the moment so keep your eyes peeled on ebay and aquarist classifieds
 
Wills

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Lets not leave out the discus and the angels and all the lovely blackwater cichlids- flags, pikes, geos-
 
I never tire of posting this its shows a lot of neat cichlids besides altums.
 
[media]http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=duvFEPwabng&list=UUZHuEhmXzuA1iT-zGgKdPKg&index=7[/media]

 

[Wills]

WOW!! What a video The reason I didnt mention Discus in particular is because I dont know a great deal about them, having never kept them so really glad you have joined the thread Depending on the tank size Im sure some Geos will be being suggested in here
 
Great video though
 
Wills

 

[SmokedPaprika]

Agreed, fantastic video!  Thank you so much for sharing that and Wills, those links are great, I love tangledupincichlids - spent ages on the train this morning scrolling through it.  I loved the chocolate cichlid pic; they're adorable, they look like aquatic puppies!
 
I *think* I'd like to do medium/large South American social; I like how interactive some of the super-aggressive fish can be but at the same time I'm wary about the potential fallout.  I know there aren't any guarantees with cichlids, but I like the idea of more than one fish in the tank and would prefer to reduce the chances of having to separate out my stock!  I guess it's going to be a 6 footer; I'll have to keep that in mind when I house hunt and make sure there'll be space in the living room and yes, if you wouldn't mind making some suggestions as to stocking lists that would be brilliant!

 

[SmokedPaprika]

Oooh, I've been looking at geos...particularly liking the threadfins!  What would be a good group size in a 6x2x2?

 

[Wills]

In a 6x2x2 a Geo tank can work out great I have a Threadfin and he is a fantastic fish one of my favorites I have ever kept - they can be hard to keep in groups from what I have read and as a result he has been on his own for the past 3 years. But if you look in the members pictures section there is a tank that had a large group of them and they look fantastic!! Though I dont know enough about that tank to recommend them as a group fish.
 
Since you like the Threadfins though I am guessing you like the "Surinimensis" group which includes things like Altifrons, Red Head Tapajos, Pindarae, Winemilleri, Albios and a few others which are my favorites as well
 
I always think that as few species as possible make big tanks like this the most impressive. So the extreme of that would be one species of Geo with one species of schooling dither fish and one species of catfish. But it is possible to add in much more than that should you want it.
 
Depending on which area of the country your from will kind of decide how easy it is for you to find each species. It just depends on what you want.
 
I suspect that you want a couple of species of cichlid in there so maybe a list like this
 
1 or 2 x  Severum - any strain you like - 1 or 2 depending on if you want a pair, males can fight at times and if you get 2 females they will try and lay eggs and could fight each other for the space to do that...
 
OR
 
1 or 2 Chocolate Cichlids - similar to above - or you could do 1 Choc, 1 Sev
 
6 x Geophagus sp. Red Head Tapajo - depending on what you can find and which ones you like
1 x Thread Fin Acara
2 x Yellow Acaras - nice peaceful small Acara that will find confidence in a pair
 
15 x Lemon Tetras - or any kind of disk shaped tetra
5 x Marbled Headstanders
 
8 x Porthole or Flagtail Catfish
 
5x Fancy Plec - which ever you like really, maybe a group of L134 Leopard Frog Plecos?
 
 
On a quick tot up thats about 160 inches of fish in there but given the size of the fish that will be in there and the plecs not quite filling it to the limit will be of benefit. Though its worth saying the inch per gallon rule is not accurate in anyway but it is a useful thing to be mindful of when looking at a list of fish like this.
 
I have always had more success in adding very young fish into the tank and growing them on - even if you have larger cichlids in there make sure you always add juveniles in there rather than adults or sub adults.
 
It is also quite similar to my own tank haha!!
 
Wills

 

[SmokedPaprika]

Wow, thanks!  Fab list I'm getting all impatient now...and I have even more questions...(sorry!)
 
Re: chocolates and sevs...if I did go for a pair of one or the other, how likely is it that I'd have issues once they grew up and spawned?  Would I need a breeding tank set up as well, or would they be OK as long as they had enough space? 
 
Red head tapajos - stunning fish not sure what would be available in my area though, I haven't seen them in my LFS before (I'm currently based in the Lakes, planning on moving to Kendal for work reasons).
 
Acaras - would it be possible to do a pair of threadfins and skip the yellows?  Or do the threadfins get aggressive when they breed?
 
Tetras - I'm not in love with the lemon ones, but maybe that's just because I haven't seen any coloured up properly.  What about bleeding hearts?  Would they (probably) do OK?  I also quite like emperor tetras, but maybe they aren't bulky enough to be safe from Sev/choccie munching.

Love the headstanders; of the catfish I think I prefer the flagtails - so cute!  Again though, don't recall ever seeing either of these in my LFS
 
Plecos - I did initially want to go with one larger one; I quite often see them in my LFS at a good size, presumably people have bought them and then had to return them when they realised how huge they can get! Not just the commons either; I've seen a few sailfins, and once a black one with large white spots, not sure what its L-number was.  I always feel sorry for them and want to bring one home having said that, those L134s are adorable, and a group of them looks so effective!  Choices, choices...

Out of curiosity, what's your current stock? always interesting to know what people keep!

 

[Wills]

Your not that far away from Manchester then... which is stuffed full of good shops, well that and the surrounding areas. Pier Aquatics and Rare Aquatics are two of my favorite shops in the country and stock pretty much all of the fish we both like so much

Both are probably about an hour or so away?
 
Breeding fish is always a risk in any tank, personally I try to stay away from it with the largest fish in the tank - for example in my six foot the only pair I have is a pair of Bujuqueena sp. who should be manageable in the tank given their small adult size of about 3 - 4 inches compared to my 9 inch mouth brooding severum and 8 inch threadfin acara. In hindsight maybe I would recommend going for 2 males - though go for the Sevs in this case - get two youngsters, but not so young you cant see the pointed dorsal fin and face squiggles across the nose

And grow them on, they should co - exist but there is always a risk.
 
Acaras - its a up to you I added these in just out of my preference but there are a bunch of other options out there

You could try the Threadfins but they are very hard to sex when young and two males will struggle to coincide with each other as they can be quite boisterous with each other to say the least. You will find the Threadfin will join in with the hierachy of the Geos in the tank, which is quite a natural relationship in the wild - though I am not sure which species they cross paths with in the wild.
 
Interestingly Threafins are hard to breed in aquariums, they build quite large caves and excavate a large area before laying eggs deep inside - it can happen in tanks but its quite rare.
 
 
Tetras - I suggested the Lemons as I like the understated nature of them especially against the flashy fish in the tank - Bleeding Hearts would work nice though

Emperors might work but you would need to find quite large ones to start with I think. Any of the disk shape tetras will work though, just avoid the torpedo shape ones like Rummy Nose, Cardinal etc.
 
There are probably other catfish species around that would work it just depends on what you like planetcatfish.com is a great resource

Funnily enough I find Flagtails hard to find, I have 3 and all of them have been the last one in 3 different shops, they all look different as well which is funny

 
Plecs - I know what you mean, some commons are pretty nice, sailfins are just as common to be fair - a big black plec with white spots sounds like an Adonis... which is a huge huge fish growing to like 3 - 4 foot

 
 
My tanks is a 6 foot long 135 gallon so not quite as big as yours. I had quite a big disease outbreak last year and then moved house so left the tank a little light until recently so some of the fish in there are quite young. I have 2 FX5 filters on it as well.
 
1 x Mouth Brooding Severum
1 x Threadfin Acara
2 x Bujuqueena sp. Gold Stripe
6 x Cupid Cichlids
5 x Annostomus Ternetzi
6 x "Giant" Tetras
2 x Agenisous sp.Atronasus
4 x Dwarf Hoplo Catfish
3 x Flagtail Catfish
3 x Whiptail Catfish - 1 x Loricara sp, 1 x Sturisoma Aurem, 1 x Sturisoma Barbatum
 
Wills