Questions About Ph

[petal040]

Hi - I am having a tank emergency day and have posted in the emergency forum - but from all the tests I've done have some questions about pH that I thought might be best posted in here?

My tapwater is 7.2pH. The tank is 6 or less (6 is the lowest that will show on my tests). I've experienced a massive ammonia spike today. My pH in the tank used to be around 7 when I regularly tested it (I stopped testing pH after a while as that test ran out and I didn't replace it).

Any ideas what is making my pH drop (I have done two 50% water changes today and the tank water is already at 6).

The kH of the tapwater and tank water is 0. Is there anything I can do to raise this? I have read about 'buffers' but don't really understand - should I get one?

I have a piece of wood in the tank with plants on it. Could the wood affect the pH and if so should I take it out?

I have clown loaches, tetras, an algae eater and two angels - is low pH dangerous for any of these?

Substrate is black gravel.
Some plants in the tank but not masses.
Readings for ammonia were 8+ this morning. Dropped to between 2 and 4 after first water change, dropped to 1 after second water change - planning third water change this evening (I need help to carry the bucket so can't do one before then)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

5 tetras and 2 angels are new (yesterday)

The other fish have been in for at least 7 months. Tank running for around 9 months - house move 3 months ago. All fish healthy (no losses) until today.

Thanks!

 

[OldMan47]

The extremely soft water is something that the angels and tetras probably like quite well but it makes it very hard to control the pH. Your wood is probably driving down the pH because there is no ability in the water itself to buffer the pH. The typical solution is to put some crushed coral or crushed shell into the filter flow path. With the water becoming acidic, like yours is, the shell dissolves a bit and keeps the pH from dropping. It will also raise the pH somewhat so go easy because you are in fairly good water conditions for the fish you have, except of course having ammonia.

 

[petal040]

Ah okay. Would it be best then, to try and get the levels in the tank back by doing water changes, and leave the pH?

Would anything other than the wood cause my tank to crash? Or would a drop in pH cause an ammonia spike? It seems to drop very quickly (the pH) - almost immediately from tap to tank.

 

[petal040]

(Bumping)

Ammonia is now down to 0.25 with lots of water changes.

pH stll lower than 6.

Will my tank never cycle with a pH this low? I'm not sure what to do.

 

[JenCliBee]

I cant give any scientific answers but i have the same problem as you, tap water around 7.4-7.6 within the day it drops down to 6 or below, its also happening in my cycing 180 ltr however i havent bothered doing water changes to raise the PH and it IS still processing ammonia, probably slower than with a higher PH but it is processing it and its also processing nitrite. I dont know if this is due to adding mature media when i first started it but my other tanks all sit at the low PH of 6 and all stats are fine so the ammonia, nitrite is still been processed under these low PH conditions.

 

[wolfwolf]

If I were you. I would get a kh buffer (carbonate hardness) and follow the directions on the container to raise my kH to the 3 - 5 range. Just check kH every week or so to make sure it does not go to zero. End of the problem.


Try this stuff. Works for me.
http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197898/product.web

 

[JenCliBee]

If I were you. I would get a kh buffer (carbonate hardness) and follow the directions on the container to raise my kH to the 3 - 5 range. Just check kH every week or so to make sure it does not go to zero. End of the problem.


Try this stuff. Works for me.
[URL="http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197898/product.web"]http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197898/product.web[/URL]

why? the ph would be ok for his fish, the ammonia problem should be the first thing that he tried to sort out.

Are you doing a fish-IN cycle or somethink? or are you just having ammonia issues in general in an already matured tank?

 

[wolfwolf]

If I were you. I would get a kh buffer (carbonate hardness) and follow the directions on the container to raise my kH to the 3 - 5 range. Just check kH every week or so to make sure it does not go to zero. End of the problem.


Try this stuff. Works for me.
<a href="http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197898/product.web" target="_blank">http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197898/product.web</a>

why? the ph would be ok for his fish, the ammonia problem should be the first thing that he tried to sort out.

Are you doing a fish-IN cycle or somethink? or are you just having ammonia issues in general in an already matured tank?

Because it bothers the OP that the pH is low. I agree that ammonia is a bigger problem right now but the title is "questions about pH"... not ammonia. The water changes are being done for the ammonia. I believe he/she added more fish and must have caused a wicked mini-cycle. Also because I LOVE to fiddle with my tanks. It's in my nature and I think everyone should be like me.

 

[petal040]

Hi - sorry for the delay in reply - my tank seemed to experience a massive ammonia spike which killed one fish and obviously put the others at risk - it was a cycled tank that had been set up for around 9 months (with a house move around 3 months ago).

The pH coming out of ny tap is 7.2, and had been in the tank also.

I am doing the water changes to control/lower the ammonia - but was concerned that a drop in pH had killed all my bacteria, causing the tank to crash and leading to the ammonia spike?

The questions about pH were to help me see if there is anything I can do to prevent this from happening again. The kH of my water is 0 from the tap.

I also am concerned that the tank won't be able to cycle with such low pH - what do I do then? It is a full tank (as in - has a full community of fish in it). I cannot return fish to lfs (they won't do this - I asked when we moved house) and have no other tank available.

So I guess - I am most concerned about the ammonia. If I can sort that with a low pH, I am not bothered about the pH - unless it is likely to lead to another crash. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Dave Spencer]

Because it bothers the OP that the pH is low.

Who cares whether it bothers the OP? It is whether it bothers the fish that matters.

If you really are getting an ammonia spike, then the low pH will be keeping it less toxic, but the problem needs investigating.

By the way, you don`t have to add anything to your water to buffer it if the fish are fine. Leave well be. There are examples on planted tank forums where people have run planted tanks on RO wtaer, with wood, CO2 and fertilisers driving the pH down. Provided you have amazonian fish or others that like similar water, the pH will be fine. This whole "pH crash" thing gets out of hand IMO.

Just look at your fish. They are the ones that need to be happy, not you and some test tube colour. Rant over.

Dave.

 

[petal040]

I don't know what caused the spike - I was testing the levels app. fortnightly and they had been stable since the tank cycled. Then, when I found the dying fish - I checked the levels - ammonia was at 8 (as high as the test kit shows) and pH was 6 or less (as low as the test kit shows).

Fish are obviously happier and healthier with the water changes - because they aren't being poisoned by ammonia - but the changes are stressful for them. Ideally I would like to not be doing them so frequently - but that would mean having a cycled tank and I am unsure of whether or not this is a possibility with such low pH.

I have read that pH or 6 or under kills bacteria - and wondered if this had happened to me - causing the ammonia to go unprocessed?

The fish are happy with low ammonia - they would probably be happier with low (no) ammonia and less frequent water changes. Can I achieve this without addressing the low pH?