Question About Changing Water!?

[sadguppy]

I think basically, if you use buckets it's easier to dose each one before adding to the tank, but for larger tanks filled directly from the hose it's easier to do it afterwards.


Either way it is unlikely to do any harm.

Additionally some poeple don't use dechlor at all. However unless you are aware of the chemical makeup of your tap water, it isn't advised to take the risk... After all its extremely cheap if you get prime or pond dechlor.

Fair summary?

 

[Mauigirl]

You'd be surprised at the number of folks who don't use water conditioner with tap water, a bit of the science behind it can be found here.

Not to be , well extremely confrontational with a MOD but...
Can you direct the way forward in detail to the situation of each water supplied or should an individual be required to understand what is in the water from the particular tap without any in depth research?
This is viable in extremely specific circumstantial conditions and in no way recommended to the average keeper.
USE conditioner unless you fully understand your particular parameters and are willing to risk the health of your tank.

Not confrontational at all, skepticism is expected. If you followed my link; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/161413-water-changes/ and scroll down to post #19 you will find reference to some research concerning this topic. You'll find many aquarists, especially the old timers will do this not knowing the science behind it.

I did read and do agree that in some situations this would be just fine, just don't want the random forum browser to get the wrong idea is all

I don't see it as being any sort of wrong idea. There's scientific studies explaining the how's & why's behind it. With new aquarists you do want to provide as large a margin of safety in the event of any user error, and often they are dealing with a cycling or newly cycled tank. Using dechlorinator, and adding it to the water first is usually the best plan in these situations.

Over time, with some experience behind them, aquarists can limit of eliminate the use of dechlorinator. Many people do it without any issues at all, long term. If tap water contained enough disinfectants to kill a mature colony of nitrifying bacteria it would be undrinkable, but would probably make an excellent oven cleaner.

That being said I do use Prime for large water changes, mostly due to who knows what as far as metals & such can come out of my supply source. Due to my setup I add Prime afterward, and see no need to turn off filters.

Sometimes temporary chlorine is a godd thing. Kills bacteria, helps with infections. In fact, I have left chlorinated water in my tank for up to 15 minutes at a time (filter ON) for the treatment of bacterial infections and it has in no way damaged my established biological filter. My GT aquired a fungal/bacterial infection of the mouth from a sparring session with a tankmate and I used the chlorine to my advantage, per Tolak, and not only had amazing results towards the betterment of my fish's ailment, but I also incurred no damage to my filtration, which was still running when I did this.

Point is, I don't think it matters when you add the dechlorinator. If you add it before, great! If you add it during, great! If you add it after, great! As long as you add it within 15 minutes of water change, you should be good to hook.

Indeed. I add my water via hose, and usually leave the filter running during my water changes (ie, drop the water level to just above my external inlet and then refill). I turn the tap on, walk around to the tank and then add dechlor. Sometimes I make tea first though.

Ok so put in a perspective I'm gathering that, A somewhat random lvl of Chlorine Introduced on a limited time frame, from a non temperature regulated source, in a yet to be determined quantity will somehow be just Aces.. no worries??

I do get the Idea(s) but as for the experienced users making a educated call and then possibly, if even inadvertently sowing the wrong idea to even one new , clueless keeper.

I'm following the idea and get it, but am still so worried about everything as to be suspicious of co2 injection and fert dosing.. I will get over it with time but I feel my trepidation is founded given my lack of real world experience and will err on the side of caution and proceed slowly, not everyone will, some will respond after a failure ( well so and so said this would be just fine!!) .

Forgive me being questioning as it is how i will learn.
and how I try to make sure any further inquisitive minds get that this is not a given but rather an educated call to not use declor ect..

edit: I am still new here and proly a pain. forgive me? I do have great intentions, at least i think so.

 

[CezzaXV]

It is true that some experienced fish keepers do small water changes without using dechlor and it's fine. It's generally said that the levels of chlorine found in tap water aren't high enough to do much damage to a well established bacterial filter colony.

I personally prefer to err on te side of caution. Don't forget there may be other things in the water - dechlor doesn't deal with chlorine alone - and dechlor is cheap enough (I use Prime and it lasts me forever) that it's not worth the risk.

I use a hose to refill my tank. Turn the filter off and big dose of dechlor before putting any water in. It's not done any damage to my fish, and my filter is never exposed to the chlorine. While I don't doubt that it may be safe to add after or keep the filter running, it's not worth the risk considering all I have to do is unplug the filter , and I have to add dechlor at some point anyway so I might as well do it before and eliminate the risk.

 

[Ruskull]

Safe is always better than sorry. However the more experienced fishkeepers can use the chlorine in the water to their benefit as was the case with Dieses Madchen's Green Terror.

Also, if your home's water source is a well then there's no chlorine added to ground water, but it's also true that the conditioners do more than just remove chlorine.

To further complicate things tap water that's "city water" isn't always the same! I went to my County's website & they had a notice saying that they stopped adding one thing to the water supply and started adding another. Can't remember what offhand, but that actually lowered my pH at the time.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Ok so put in a perspective I'm gathering that, A somewhat random lvl of Chlorine Introduced on a limited time frame, from a non temperature regulated source, in a yet to be determined quantity will somehow be just Aces.. no worries??

I do get the Idea(s) but as for the experienced users making a educated call and then possibly, if even inadvertently sowing the wrong idea to even one new , clueless keeper.

I'm following the idea and get it, but am still so worried about everything as to be suspicious of co2 injection and fert dosing.. I will get over it with time but I feel my trepidation is founded given my lack of real world experience and will err on the side of caution and proceed slowly, not everyone will, some will respond after a failure ( well so and so said this would be just fine!!) .

Forgive me being questioning as it is how i will learn.
and how I try to make sure any further inquisitive minds get that this is not a given but rather an educated call to not use declor ect..

edit: I am still new here and proly a pain. forgive me? I do have great intentions, at least i think so.

It's how you learn hun. You want the knowledge and we will gladly give you our opinions Not a pain at all. And you are right, what would be recommended to a newbie is probably quite different from the practices of an experienced keeper. I was like most newbies and ran on the cautious side, i.e. filters off when water changes and dechlorinating each bucket. It wasn't until I had a severe situation with mu cichlids that I ever ran unchlorinated water through my filter. nd I only did it under step by step instructions from someone with more experience than me.

 

[FishBlast]

I never turn my filter off though during water changes. Instead, I lower it so that it stays below water level.
Non-dechlorinated or chlorinated, the test results show that the filter's still working with either one, provided the chlorine is out of it.
I can get the water stats from the water company monthly, so I know the hardness, ph, chlorine, ammo, nitrite and nitrate levels + iron and aluminium inside the water.

One thing I wonder though: Does the dechlorinator remove the iron? I need that for my plants...

 

[coldcazzie]

Ok so put in a perspective I'm gathering that, A somewhat random lvl of Chlorine Introduced on a limited time frame, from a non temperature regulated source, in a yet to be determined quantity will somehow be just Aces.. no worries??

yeah that's a pretty good summary. I'll admit I don't like to leave it - I prefer to add it sooner rather than later. However, I've also chucked an 8L topup into the tank straight from the cold tap with no dechlor in it. When you're starting out your bacterial colony is still fragile. Mine has been going.... 6 years? It's pretty robust. I think it can handle some chlorine every now and again. And the fish enjoy their cold water changes. Again though, it's not always - I only do cold water changes up to about 40%. Anything bigger than that and I add warm as well so I don't end up with temperature shocked fish floating round the tank like they're dead.

 

[fenny666]

Coincidentally I have been looking into this topic recently, as I was pondering whether to refill a soon to be relocted tank, directly from my nitrate filter (located under my sink)in order to make water changes more efficient.I have always used the bucket method and treated the water prior to adding it.

Unfortunately my water contains chloramine.Had it been chlorine,it was my intention to fit a mister from an irrigation system to the end of the 3mm/4mm? supply pipe in the hope that this would allow the chlorine to dissipate before it entered the tank.

Now I know i'm dealing with chloramine, I am reluctant to add this untreated to my tank due it's toxicity to my fish as stated by my water supplier http/www.stwater.co.uk/ConWebDoc/1532.Although would dosing the tank prior to refilling nullify the choramine as soon as it enters the water?

I think ideally I want to find a way of treating the water via an inline dosing system.If anyone has any ideas.

I think it is definately worth treating the water ,not just for chlorine/chloramine but also the heavy metals that are present.I just bought a 1.9l bottle of stress coat online for about a tenner.5ml treats 40l of water.By my calculation that's 15,200 litres of treated water. 15,200l FOR A TENNER!

Also I stumbled across a useful link as regards water conditioners.It's worth knowing that not all conditioners deal with chlorine and chloramine the same.Some have no effect on chloramine only chlorine.Some remove both but leave behind ammonia due to the breaking down of chloramine and some have an effect on all three.Here's the link http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Water_conditioners.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Chlorine that comes in tap water can kill your filter bacteria and cause a re-cycle every time you do a water change. That's why I use dechlor. I can't be bothered to have 70L of water sitting around to do my water change every week

, so I fill straight from my tap into the tank with a hose (filter off, adding enough dechlor for the whole tank before starting the refill). Even with the "leaving water to rest" method, I feel it's just safer to treat the water.

Also, filling straight from the tap to your tank is safe, a small temperature change doesn't hurt fish and many like it (since a cool water change triggers spawning with many fish). There's no risk of killing your bacteria as long as you turn the filter off and let the dechlor do it's work first

If was had a small tank and so was changing smaller amounts of water, I would just treat the new water and not the whole tank

Edit: I only read the first page of this thread before posting

 

[Tolak]

If you dose before filling from the tap dose for the entire tank volume, not just the replacement water volume. I have chloramine as well in my supply, no issues with adding dechlor after filling. Many people do this, as stated, with no dechlorinator whatsoever.

Rather than inline dosing a large industrial size carbon filter is often used, this is usually for larger fishrooms or commercial setups.

 

[fenny666]

I have chloramine as well in my supply, no issues with adding dechlor after filling.

Chloramine is toxic to fish.Why do you advocate adding a water conditioner after as opposed to prior?

Many people do this, as stated, with no dechlorinator whatsoever.

Just because many people do this,does that make it the right advice?The water conditioner not only dechlorinates,it also detoxifies heavy metals present which are potentially dangerous as well.

For what little water conditioner costs,in my opinion,the best advice would be to use it.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Chloramine is toxic to fish at long exposure, not for 2-3 minutes lol. You would probably find more potential hazards in a tank setup at your LFS than the hazard of chlorine/chloramine exposure for a couple of minutes.

 

[Amavi]

I put 3 things in my water: Stresscoat, Stress zyme, and nitrivec. I am little over cautious maybe but all get 2 drops of the coat and zyme and then a small squirt of the nitrivec. That is with every bucket of water that goes into the tank. I notice a lot of people turn their filters off for water changes? I leave mine on and all my stones/heater and lights. Not had a problem yet

 

[fenny666]

Chloramine is toxic to fish at long exposure, not for 2-3 minutes lol.

Chloramine passes through the gills of fish and directly enters their bloodstream where it chemically binds to the iron in the hemoglobin in red blood cells causing a reduction in the cells capacity to carry oxygen.

Chlorine burns the edges of gills and destroys cells.

Chloramine and chlorine have a detrimental effect under any amount of exposure.This cannot be seen as desirable nor is it necessary,hence,why advocate adding water conditioner post as opposed to prior a water change?If you're going to put it in anyway, then why not do it prior?

You would probably find more potential hazards in a tank setup at your LFS than the hazard of chlorine/chloramine exposure for a couple of minutes.

Quite possibly,but how is that relevant?

 

[Tolak]

I have chloramine as well in my supply, no issues with adding dechlor after filling.

Chloramine is toxic to fish.Why do you advocate adding a water conditioner after as opposed to prior?

Due to my setup I add Prime afterward, and see no need to turn off filters.

Most of my tanks are drilled with overflows for water changes, hot & cold tap water run to the fishroom. Adding it before adding water would be pretty useless. Only having 20-30 tanks running in my fishroom, a $500+ carbon block filtration system is a bit beyond the budget at this time, as it would also be wise to run UV after the filter due to their tendency to grow bacteria such as Pseudomonas. That would put it close to the $1k mark, which is financially feasible once you approach the 100+ tank range. Mine is a pretty common setup for a smaller fishroom, this is a standard procedure for many fishrooms of this size. Carbon block & UV is pretty common for the 100+ tank setups.

I’m not advocating, rather explaining that in situations it can, and is done. Chlorine/chloramines do react with the various organic & inorganic compounds found in water, basically becoming used up, presenting themselves at a much lower concentration to aquarium inhabitants. This lower concentration is quickly used as food by the nitrifying bacteria in the filter, splitting the chlorine/ammonia bond in chloramines, with any residual chlorine gassing off.

Many old timers have been doing this for years, not knowing the science behind it, and consistently run disease free tanks & fishrooms producing show winning fish. The bit of residual disinfectant keeps unwanted bacteria at bay, and is very much a light duty use of an oxidant, similar to how some will use potassium permanganate every so often to reduce unwanted bacteria.

So in some cases, yes, it is desirable, and perhaps necessary. There is no individual right way to keep fish, do water changes, perform other maintenance tasks & so on, rather it is a wide range of ideas, techniques, tips & tricks that are used as parts & pieces that work best for the individual. This is just one of those many pieces.