Problems With Ammonia

[Shabba82]

Hi, I have a Fluval Roma 125 litre
Which has a Fluval U3 Filter
Which has Sponges, Black Carbon and Zeolite / Biomax.

Here are the inhabitants :

3 Rummynose Tetra
3 Penguin Tetra
3 x-Ray Tetra
5 Black Widow Tetra
10 Neon Tetra
5 Guppies
2 Swordtails
2 Sailfin Mollies
1 BristleNose Plec
1 Gold Spotted Plec

Here's the issue. So I've been having issues with Whitespot. The Neon Tetra was showing symptoms. 4 of them so far, tho 2 seem to have got better.

This started on 10th May 2016.
I did a Gravel clean
And My Usual 40-50% water change
Then removed my carbon and biomax from the filter, added the whitespot treatment and some aquarium salt.

Same on the 14 May, 17th May, 19th May and full indepth clean yesterday, 50% water change, over an hour cleaning the gravel.

Over the past few days,I've started losing fish, no obvious signs. The whitespot doesn't seem to have affected anyone else nor has it cleared up.

The casualties were swordtails, guppies and Rummynose. Everyone else seem fine.

So I thought it was a reaction to the aquarium salt I was adding. So I did an api Test this morning, I am horrified by the results.

So this after my 50% water change yesterday.

P.H. 6.6
Nitrite 0 ppm.
Nitrate 0 ppm.
Ammonia 8 ppm!!!!!

So I panicked obviously!
Straight away 40% water change and an hour later retested the Ammonia, now at 4 ppm. I know this is still extremely high.

So my thinking, it's either the whitespot altering the Ammonia results or the more likely, whilst I've been treating the whitespot, I've obviously removed the carbon and the biomax, but kept the sponges in, whilst treating for the whitespot. This has been since the 10th and I havnt touched the filter since. So what do I do next? Help. Please. Many Thanks To Anyone Who Comments.

 

[imbellis.my]

I think you should add in more aquatic plant, your aquarium is overpopulated

 

[Shabba82]

I had plants, but I am about to change the gravel to sand substrate, will look better and hopefully won't collect the waste like the gravel does. But yeah I plan to add plants. I know I am overstocked, rookie mistake, I had a number of deaths a few mths ago, and I am not putting in anymore fish until I upgrade my tank.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The process of cleaning your gravel and filter etc has more than likely removed a lot of the good bacteria you need to keep ammonia and nitrite under control.
 
Both types of bacteria is found everywhere in your tank, not just the filter. So by doing a 'full in depth clean' has removed these bacteria unfortunately.
 
Therefore due to the reduced numbers of the bacterias, you are not in effect cyclign the tank again, though likely a mini cycle for want of a better term, your ammonia has started to buildiup to an untolerable level of 8ppm +.
 
40% water change is nowhere near enough, I'd change the water again, as much as you can, leaving enough water in the tank a full length of height of water of your largest fish and re-fill with temperature matched dechlorinated water.
 
As for the whitespot treatment, you do not mention what treatment you have been giving so far and for how long exactly.
 
And a note, salt does help in helping the fish to breathe when there is ammonia/nitrite in the tank, but this largely depends on the dosage of salt and of course if your fish are salt tolerant, doubt if the plecs are salt tolerant but I am not 100% sure on that.
 
Lastly, mollies much prefer harder water, your water params of 6.6 pH tells me you are likely to have softer water but would need the gH and kH value of your water to be sure of this.
 
More info on sailfin mollies here - http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-velifera/
 
Sorry if am being negative re your fish stocking but you have to learn this sooner or later before you start having issues with your mollies.

 

[Shabba82]

Hi, I changed another 20% of the water and did another gravel clean, because the tank looks messy.

I have put the filter media back in. I have been using the Internet whitespot and the api whitespot. I also use the api water conditioner, stress coat and stress zyme and I added an Ammonia remover. Though most I speak to don't use chemicals in there tank.
I'm soft Water. I didn't know about the different types of water parameters for certain. Will do another water change. Ammonia reading 2-4ppm.

 

[Shabba82]

Just changed the water as low as I could get it. 90% change. Just put in my api tap water conditioner. Nothing else added.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Thats better, 90% that will reduce ammonia by quite some margin.
 
May be an idea to re-test the ammonia level to see what your water parameters are, nitrite and possibly nitrate if you have that test kit.
 
Now is a case of seeing if any symptoms show on the fish anytime.

 

[Shabba82]

I've lost a few over the last few days. Swordtail,Guppy, Rummynose. But I was in a pickle. I have put back in the filter media, which I had in before, neon Tetra still showing whitespot... Grrrrr.....

I use the api master kit, posted the results earlier. Ammonia retested, is now 1-2ppm after a 90% water change, considering it was 8ppm. Fish seem a lot better.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ammonia level is still a somewhat too high. Sorry but another large water change will help reduce this even further.
 
As I have mentioned on your other thread, anything over 0.25 - 0.5ppm ammonia long term is asking for trouble.
 
This would be the first thing I would be more concerned about, the ammonia and nitrite levels as exposure to these at a level over 0.25 to 0.5 for a length of time will do irrepairable damage to the organs of your stocking.
 
Whitespot can be treated, that is the difference.

 

[Shabba82]

Ok. Thanks.
So can I treat the whitespot at the moment? Or just leave it? I don't know how to treat whitespot without taking out the filter media.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Once you have done the large water change, do start the ich treatment asap.
 
Think you only need to remove any active carbon from your filter during any treatments.
 
With whatever whitespot / ich treatment you have, calculate the tank volume and usually a seven day dosing regime foloowing the instruction on bottle exactly.
 
You could also increase the water temp up to 30C / 86F as high as your fish can tolerate as higher temps speeds up the parasite life cycle.
 
As mentioned earlier, add salt to the tank if your fish can tolerate this, though you should see if your tank spcies can cope with the addition of salt.
 
Note -  if whitespot gets inside the fish’s gills it will be in real trouble.

 

[Akasha72]

with a pH of 6.6 any ammonia should be present as ammonium and far less toxic. That does not mean you should ignore it, only that it isn't as toxic as it would be if you had a pH over 7.  
 
The best whitespot treatment I have found is Waterlife's Protozin. The only media you need to remove for this medication to work is the carbon. You also need to switch off any UV lights. Some whitespot treatments can affect bacteria and this may or may not be the case here. 
 
I would second what Ch4rlie has said regarding stocking but we've all made mistakes in the beginning. The plecs will not be able to tolerate salt ... same applies with corydoras. Please do not add salt when you have catfish 
 
Hope that helps

 

[Shabba82]

My temp is at 30-31.
I have been using the ice treatment and aquarium salt since the 10th May, without the carbon or biomax in the filter. Every few days, redosing with ice treatment and the salt. But there was too much laying in the gravel, hence the in depth cleans to sort the gravel. The Rummynose are turning a better red colour as they were paler earlier.

But by the sounds of it, I have removed a lot of the bacteria, and the tank needs to cycle again. So I'm expecting more casualties. I will do another water change tomorrow.
I've been using api quick start and api ammonia remover, as I know the filter might have needed a bit of help, as when treating the ich I removed the media.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The Biomax you took out of the filter before, did you by any chance keep that moist or kept in tank water and how long was it kept out of the filter?
 
I will make a few recommendations for you to try to save the remaining fish.
 
First, due to the resulting loss of your bacterias in the tank and in the filter, you may be in fact doing a fish in cycle IF the bacteria from your biomax media is not all lost.
 
So, I would recommend you read this article to give you ideas of what you should expect to do over the next few weeks at least -
 
Rescuing a Fish in Cycle part II
 
 
Second - get some Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only Live Nitrfying Bacteria, this will help add a boost of bacterias that you will need. Or better yet, get some filter media from a established tank, try to take no more than a third of this established tank's filter if you have access to one and replace the media you take. Sponge media and some ceramics/ noodles should contain both types of bacterias you need.
 
Third - Get a bottle of Seachem Prime, this is a dechlorinator, but with the added bonus of being able to bind ammonia which will help in your case. Your bottle of API water conditioner does not neutralize ammonia at all.
 
Four - STOP adding stress zyme, stress coat, api quick start and api ammonia remover, this will not help, in fact may do the reverse and actually do more harm than good. The less chemicals you put in the tank, the better.
 
Five - Add lots of fast growing plants such as elodea, vallisernias, floating plants, they are nutrient hungry types of plants and more importantly they will help with controlling your ammonia levels.
 
Six - Carry on with you ich / whitespot treatment, though this may be difficult to maintain due to the fact you may have to change water regularly to keep ammonia levels down. Ich treatment won't effect bacterias or filter media.
 
 
Points two , three and five are more alone the lines of recommendations / guidances but they will help if you can get these, i would rather you do these to be safer.
 
I hope that helps. If you require further explainations on any of these points i made, please do ask am happy to explain more and why.