Posted A (potential) Pinnable Sub-faq

[nmonks]

Hello all --

I added another sub-FAQ for newbies, this one on "unusual livebearers". A while back we had the discussion about how guppies etc. drown out the chat on the oddball livebearers. I'm not sure this is a fix, but I'd like to alert newbies to the fact that there are other livebearers and that many of these make very cool pets.

I'm not an expert of goodeids, never kept them in fact, and I'd love to have something added about them, perhaps with some pictures? Additional web links would be useful, too.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Annastasia]

I'd add in more about tank size/conditions for the more common of the rare ones. Like the ones you mentioned, Halfbeaks, Four-eyed fish, Pike Livebearers.... Such as the minimum tank size, how big they grow, and what water conditions they are kept in, such as brackish, added salt, completely fresh. Just to give people an idea, if they are planning a 20g brackish for example. And to give them an idea about what size they are getting themselves into. Also possibly something about Endlers. Or do you find those too common? And Mosquito fish.

Also, all Goodeids are not Livebearers. There are only four, mind you, in two genuses, (Blanking out on the names, I'll add those in the morning when I can think!) but I just thought I'd add that. A good article about Goodeids is here. Another good one is here. And one more!

Anyway, I could see it being a very good potential pinned article, if you added in just a little bit more. Great work so far though.

 

[nmonks]

Annastasia --

Thanks for the comments!

I've added some stuff on examples of livebearers. But there are just so many! And I'm not an expert on them at all, except having a little experience of breeding and keeping halfbeaks.

Couldn't find anything on non-livebearing Goodeidae.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Annastasia]

I think the genuses are Crenichthys and Empetrichthys. Spelling might be iffy though!

It looks so much better now. I'd just add in that Gambusia affinis is often sold under the name Mosquitofish too. Sometimes Western Mosquitofish. These fish are MUCH more aggressive then Heterandria Formosa, and you should be careful keeping them with other fish. They also get bigger, the females maxing out at 7cm. It is possible to tell the difference though, you just have to know what you're looking for.

Heterandria Formosa

Gambusia Affinis

Endlers are also going by Poecilia sp. now. Go figure. And you also might want to add in the most common name for Four-eyes, Anableps Anableps. That's the species I see EVERYWHERE.

I hope this doesn't sound too picky, I really do think it's a good article.

 

[nmonks]

Annastasia,

Thanks for the comments!

Have made the corrections and addtions you suggested, except the one about the four-eyed fish. In Europe at least, the only species traded is Anableps microlepis from the Atlantic seaboard of the South America. Imports from the Pacific coast (which would be A. anableps and A. dovii) don't occur. I don't know if this is true in the US. Anytime that Anableps anableps is used in the hobby literature it is, for European publishers at least, erroneous.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Annastasia]

Here in the US, the only one you hear of, anywhere, is A. anableps. All the shops and websites sell them under that name, even the Aquariums only have those! I guess it's just a differing by country.

It's looking better and better! Thanks for adding in my comments. The red is very catchy too.

 

[nmonks]

And I bet the name used by those dealers is w-r-o-n-g wrong.

It's the same with all the books telling people their bumblebee gobies are Brachygobius xanthozona (which they never are), or their archerfish are Toxotes jaculatrix (which they sometimes are, but in the US Toxotes microlepis is supposedly much more commonly traded). And don't even get me started on the multiple species of halfbeak sold as "Celebes halfbeaks"!

But I don't know enough about these fish to be sure. I did a bit of reading up, and my assumption that Anableps anableps was from the Pacific is incorrect, that one is Anableps dovii. So Anableps anableps could be imported with Anableps microlepis. I'm going by the Aqualog 'Brackish Water Fishes' book, where Schaefer says the ones imported (into Europe) are Anableps microlepis.

Identifying these fish to species level is difficult -- you need to count scales along the lateral line. No importer or retailer is going to do that. Since they all have identical requirements, why worry? I'll just change the entry to "Anableps spp." and leave it at that.

Cheers,

Neale

Here in the US, the only one you hear of, anywhere, is A. anableps. All the shops and websites sell them under that name, even the Aquariums only have those! I guess it's just a differing by country.

 

[Annastasia]

...Since they all have identical requirements, why worry? I'll just change the entry to "Anableps spp." and leave it at that.

Works for me. If people want to be perfectly sure which one they have, I'm sure they can find out somehow. Just basic information is all you need.

 

[nmonks]

Annastasia --

I agree, but when I looked up distinguishing Anableps species and found, for example, Anableps microlepis is characterised by "having more than 80 scales on the lateral line", I threw in the towel...

Cheers,

Neale

Works for me. If people want to be perfectly sure which one they have, I'm sure they can find out somehow. Just basic information is all you need.

 

[Annastasia]

I can see us there, looking at pictures, and blowing them up under the microscope to count the scales so people can see the difference. "42...43....44....'Anna, come here quick!'"

I think it's fine the way it is. Did you post it in the Pin Me topic? The top of the forum is getting pretty full!

 

[nmonks]

Not yet. Wanted everyone here to have their say, if they wanted to.

The livebearer forum has a nice bunch of articles pinned at the top, which is cool. I would like someone to do something on how to breed fancy livebearers the right way. There seems to be an art to (a) getting pure-bred lines and (b) getting the fish, expecially mollies, to maximum size.

Cheers,

Neale

Did you post it in the Pin Me topic?

 

[Weaver]

...

 

[dwarfgourami]

Great topic, Neale, and well worth pointing out! I was particularly pleased as I am thinking of unusual livebearers myself for when I get my big tank later this year.

I saw my first Ameca splendens at the weekend; they have a breeding programme at the Blue Reef Aquarium, Portsmouth. Juveniles very handsome, and there is something almost primitive about the stocky shapes of the adults. Definitely a fish to remember. Though I've no idea where you'd get hold of them, presumably livebearers' societies? What are their personalities like? I saw them pushing each other about the tank a bit but no fins flying.

How about adding limias to the list? They tend to be small and seem relatively easy to keep. I was thinking of maybe getting black-bellied limias for my own tank. They don't get a very good press in Baensch, he says nobody wants to keep them because they'll eat all your plants, but I've noticed people on the internet who have kept them seem a lot more positive. (Baesch seems a bit hung up about food anyway: a fish that eats tropical flakes is a GOOD fish, a fish that needs other food is being difficult. Wasn't he related to the inventor of dried fish flakes?).

 

[blitztidus]

I have never heard of Anableps anableps before and thought I might as well google it and I found these intresting looking critters.

I then looked up Anableps microlepis and tried to find a difference but that was also the only difference I could find. At least I learned something today , Those poor fishies eyes are used in research because of their divided cornea which sends two pictures to the cornea .

 

[nmonks]

Hello dwarfgourami --

I added what I know about limias. They're nice fish, and make a good choice if you have hard water.

If you're into unusual livebearers, or any other fish for that matter, I cannot recommend the Tropical Fish Finder web site too highly.

http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk

Use the search box on the left. For example, I quickly found places with the delightful Limia nigrofasciata and Ameca splendens. Limia melanogaster isn't in stock anywhere on their database.

http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/shops_...shType=tropical
http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/shops_...shType=tropical

Wildwoods (Enfield) and Wholesale Tropicals (Bethnal Green, London) are both good places to look for livebearers.

Ameca splendens is a bit boisterous but should be fine with things like swordtails and mollies. Might be a bit risky with small guppies or dwarf mosquito fish, but only because they'd bully the smaller fish at feeding time.

Definitely visit the Livebearer Info web site for articles on these fish.

http/www.livebearer.info/modules.php?name=Topics

I agree with you that the Baensch books have their flaws, but they're still the best ones out there, with the possible exception of the Aqualog books. Baensch tends to be a bit cautious about some things, like food, but in a lot of cases that's OK. I just went and looked into Baensch re: Limia and I see what you mean. Provided you didn't keep soft leaved plants, I can't imagine Limia would be disruptive. I can't see it uprooting an Amazon sword!

Cheers,

Neale