Poorly Betta

[barlow1984]

I seem to have a poorly male Betta. I've had him for about 3 months now and at the beginning he was really healthy looking, fairly active although was mostly around the bottom of the tank.
 
I had some bad advice and got a couple of poor fish choice from LFS however he has NEVER fell out with any of the other fish that I've seen. 
 
Over the last couple of weeks he hardly ever moves unless it's for food or if something startles him. He does every now and again go straight to the top of the tank and then back down again, but thats about it. In colour he is really dark and most of the time actually looks like he's died. 
 
He's a tri-tip and is mostly blue with red specs in his fins if that makes any difference. 
 
Is there anything that you can suggest that I could do to bring him back to his old self or is he perhaps past the point of no return?

 

[Flute]

Sorry to hear your betta isn't well. I have a couple of questions for you which will hopefully help shed some light on what's going on. Firstly, did you cycle the tank before you added fish to it, and if so how did you go about it? How big is the tank and what are his tank mates? You say the LFS gave you poor advice, could it be that your tank is over stocked and the filter is struggling, or could the tank mates be stressing him out? What maintenance do you do on the tank- how often do you do water changes and how much? What do you feed him and how much? Does his belly look round or bloated? Do you have a liquid test kit that you could test the ammonia and nitrite with? My gut feeling is that it sounds like ammonia poisoning, have you tried doing daily water changes with dechlorinated water to see if that helps him at all?
 
Sorry for the bucket load of questions, but the more information the better

 

[barlow1984]

Thanks for your reply and the help!
 
Ok so I'll start at the beginning, I ran a fishless cycle for 2 weeks with donated mature filter media. I then added a couple of guppys to the tank and left it for a couple more weeks before getting my betta.
 
I've done regular 25% weekly water changes, followed all the cleaning advice etc and I do almost weekly liquid tests on the water too. So far I've had 1 guppy die fo an unknown reason since setting up the tank. I've steadily added fish to get to the current level at which I plan to stay with. The full stocking list is in my profile but I have guppys, gourami, m+F betta (following bad advice), rainbow shark, apistos and a pleco. I have 130l tall aqua one tank with plenty of live plants, rocks, bog wood etc.
 
He isn't bloated in fact he looks on the thin side. I've been feeding once per day, mostly flake but at least twice a week with bloodworm which he loves. In terms of quantity its a small pinch of flake which is gone within 2 mins easily or half a block of the frozen bloodworm at any one time.
 
The only change that I can think of recently is using a different plant food to boost new plants I've added, but he was similar before then too.

 

[TallTree01]

The guppies, gourami and shark are probably freaking him out. I would get him a smaller tank ( 5 gallons ) all to himself. They do better alone in my opinion. Also flake is not a good staple for him, I would get him some special betta pellets.

 

[Flute]

Agreed with TallTree.The female betta is also another suspect, as they really shouldn't be kept together. Also, I'd really try and get your water tested so that you can check that all the levels are safe.
 
I would also consider returning some of the more problematic fish to the shop, especially the rainbow shark as this will out grow your tank very quickly. Do you know what species of pleco it is you have too? It'll be fine if it's something like a bulldog or bristlenose, but if it's a common then again it will out grow your tank and cause a lot of problems.
 
With your tank being tall, and him being so poorly it's going to be a huge effort for him to get to the surface to breath, which is probably another thing that is not helping his condition. Tall tanks aren't recommended in general for betta, as they're not particularly good swimmers with all that fancy finage. You can get 5 gal tanks for really cheap, just stick some mature media in the filter and a heater and away you go

 
As far as food goes, I'd try a big variation to reduce the possibility of him becoming bloated or constipated.
 
Any chance you could get a photo of him? 

 

[barlow1984]

I'm going to have a look at a little 25l fluval edge tank later on to use for him. If he doesn't make it I'll use it as a quarantine/hospital/breeding tank as needed. Hopefully he'll pick up when he's on his own with some special food.

I'll set it up with my own tank water and use some of my existing filter media, that should be ok with one fish shouldn't it short term?
 
The pleco is an albino bristlenose (he's in the background of the photo), I did alot of research on algea eaters to make sure I got the right one! As for the level's they've all been checked apart from the PH and are all at normal levels and have been everytime I've tested.
 
Here's a picture of him:

 

[Flute]

Lovely little plec!
 
Fluval edges aren't considered great tanks for betta unfortunately- because of the design of the fluval edge it hinders anabantoids ability to breath from the surface. I'd recommend something like a Superfish Qubie or Arcadia Arc- great looking little tanks and more suitable for betta

And setting up that way will be fine

You don't even need to use old tank water as long as there isn't a huge difference between your tank and tap water's pH.
 
In general he looks ok, although a little dark. His tail looks a little short, but I can't tell 100% from the photo if that's damage caused by another fish or something like fin rot.

 

[Wildbetta]

When you say the levels are all "normal" do you actually know the number readings from a liquid test?  You want the levels to be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte, and less than 40 nitrAtes.  For bettas-- ph is not as important as long as it stays steady.
 
My thoughts are the other fish are your main culprit ESPECIALLY the female betta and gourmani(s).  I understand that the LFS gave you bad advice about the M/F combo, but that would be my starting point.  Gourmanis and bettas normally don't do well together either as they are both bubblenesting anabatoids and therefor take up the same space in the aquarium and both tend to be territorial.  To be perfectly honest--just about all the fish in your tank are territorial and can be a problem for each other except the guppies and pleco.
 
Your betta's color is dark but to be honest most of the time when betta are seriously ill, they "fade" and tend to lose color.  I am concerned about how tall the tank is with him not feeling the best as like previously stated, it makes it hard for him to get to the surface and breathe.  Also what is the temp of your tank?  I am also concerned about his tail as it does look awefully short in that shot. 
 
I agree with previous posters about getting him a 5 gallon heated (at least) tank of his own.  This will help him not be stressed by the other fish and should help him perk up.  Also feed him pellets instead of flakes.  Flakes are not really good for bettas.  A treat of frozen bloodworms once a week or so is good for him as well.  For giving him a diet full of variety--get several different brands of pellet food  so that you can switch them out every couple of days.
 
Hope he gets to feeling better!!

 

[barlow1984]

Progress update: So my betta is in a nice tank all on his own, sat right next to my iMac. He's perked up quite a bit, but that might be because he's always in my eye line now!
 
I did end up going with the Fluval 23l for the simple fact it cost next to nothing, it's a short term fix for now though. Need to make sure the Mrs didn't hit the roof too! I haven't filled it up to the top and left a good 1cm from the top to allow air to circulate for him.
 
Sorry yes by normal levels I mean 0 ammonia and nitrite. I haven't tested the nitrate, I need to get a test kit for it. I also got him some pellet food but he ignored it when I put it in last night. The new and old tanks are both at 28C.
 
I guess it's just a case of fingers crossed and hope for the best

 

[Wildbetta]

He will probably ignore the pellets for the first little bit because they like to be picky.  Consistantly offer him the pellets and he will eventually eat them.  You might try a few different brands to see which type he likes and takes to the most. 
 
I am glad to hear he has his own tank and that he is starting to liven back up. Hope to see him improve even more.