Please Help: Sterbai Cory Paralysis, Twitching, "seizures"

[Alyssum]

Please help: Sterbai Cory paralysis, twitching, "seizures"

Hello, I'm posting on this forum because one of my cories has had a rapid decline in health. I've  posted on several sites and have gotten very little advice or none at all. I'm trying to be as  detailed as possible with pictures and videos as well because I want to document this sickness. I  have not seen many topics about it, maybe a few threads, but they never reach a conclusion. I am  aware it isn't easy diagnosing fish and he will probably die, but I figure I might as well make  his death somewhat meaningful or get some information.

Basically, he has lost function in his ventral fins and can't swim normally. He has bouts of  twitching. Some say it could be poisoning of some sort or TB (curving spine) I've read of a  similar cases on a forum with no conclusion and it seemed to happen to several of his cories, one  after the other. Could this be contagious? Should I quarantine him again?

1. Water parameters
 Temperature range. 76-79
 pH: 7.6
Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite: 0, 0, 0
Water change frequency: Once a week, about 60%

2. Tank set up
a) Size. 10 gal (I'm aware sterbais need more room, but I bought it on a whim and plan to upgrade)
b) Substrate: Sand
c) Filtration: Tetra Whisper Filter
d) Furnishings: Some fake plants, a hideout made of slate
e) Other tank mates: two other sterbai cories and a betta
f) How long has it been set-up? 10 months

3. Symptoms / Problem description

Summary: Sudden change in behavior. Swam rapidly into side of tank (abnormally, not normal cory  behavior swimming). Lost function of ventral and pectoral fins and thus cannot surface for air or  turn with ease. Spine curves sometimes when he is still, but he straightens it. Darkened skin.  Twitching.

UPDATE 10/30/2014

NEW VIDEO

http/v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=15zibkw&s=8

I have observed that he cannot seem to use his bottom fins. He can't lift his body up with his  ventral fins, which makes it difficult for him to feed. He has a hard time turning because he  cannot move his pectoral fins very well, if at all. He scoots across the ground, lying flat on  his belly. He does eat food, but cannot access it well because of the above problems. I don't  think he can surface for air. The barbs of his pectoral fins seem grayish and faded, instead of  bright beige like his tank mates. He twitches strangely every few seconds, but will have bouts  where there is no twitching. Slightly darker skin tone.

10/28/2014

I don't know the gender...

Sudden onset of erratic swimming. I know cories like to swim against the glass, but this is  different. It's expending all its energy swimming as fast as it can in the corner and actually  made a crater in the sand from swimming so hard. It's twitching here and there when it stays  still. I thought it was going to explode from using so much energy. Didn't think it'd make it  until morning. I thought it may be swim bladder, but I'm not so sure. It isn't turning upside  down, but instead just swims in a straight line, always staying upright.

Seems to have difficulty changing direction or going up for air. Does not seem interested in food  because it is too busy swimming fast against a corner and breathing heavily. It was fine  10/27/2014 when I went to clean the tank. It was swimming with its buddies and did not appear to  be stressed. Mere hours later, it was swimming like crazy and breathing heavily. I had noticed  rapid breathing for the past couple days. Its barbels are very short/gone, but its been that way  for months. It didn't seem to affect it in any way. It has been staying away from the other two  here and there. I thought maybe its belly was a bit swollen, but I cannot say for certain.  Reddish tint on gills and belly, don't know if that's normal.

4. Action taken (if any)

10/30/2014 Update: I have since returned him to the main tank. He has been fed and an air pump  added.

I moved him to a small tub with tank water. I was concerned it might hurt itself or its tank  mates. I was uncertain what to do about a heater, I know it's bad to let them sit in a tank  without a heater when that is what they are used to. I have a small heater meant for a 5-10g so I  was unsure if it was safe to put in the container. It was very late at night and I stood up  trying to find an answer to what might be wrong, but it is very hard to diagnose a fish. Nothing  really seems to fit. Some mention the possibility of poison from their barbs, but I figured he'd  be dead by now and his breathing rapid, not slow. Could be parasites. I don't know. I've been  treating the tank with kanaplex because my betta is a fin biter and I wanted to make sure he  didn't have/get an infection. I added the last dose into the tank when I cleaned the water.

I've put six doses into the tank so far, spaced out as instructed, and waited about a week  between each 3 round course so it didn't kill my bb. I figured it might help its barbels too  because I read it might be from infection and I think I saw a little improvement, but not much. I  put a pea into the tank after deshelling, boiling and crushing it because there was nothing else  I could do and I figured if he had SBD it might help. Admittedly, I haven't been as diligent with  cleaning the tank of leftover food because I've been working on a lot of projects and I feel  really bad about that. The nitrates reached 50 ppm at one point, but I have since cleaned it  twice or thrice. That's all I can think of that might have caused it.

5. Medications used (if any)

Kanaplex
A pea

Food: Omega one shrimp pellets and hikari disc

His tank mates are acting normal with no signs of stress. They both have long barbels and swim  together. Right now he is staying still and twitching here and there. I assume he is exhausted  from all the swimming. I don't know what to do. I feel helpless. I'm not expecting any miracles  and he probably will die, but I'm hoping someone might know something...

I have pictures and a short video of his behavior. Unfortunately, it doesn't exhibit the same  vigor and urgency that he had last night, but you can see something is not right. Sorry if the  frontal photo is distorted, but he just sits in a corner and the container makes it look funny.  Should I put the heater in the small container? I don't want to cook him. I had plants in there  but they seems to be impeding his ability to swim to the surface because he'd get stuck, so I  took them out.

Thanks in advance.

 

[nic1]

From the post I can only suggest that the nitrates are a direct influence on your cory, like humans, some people/fish are stronger and healthier than others, some get sick more frequently and severely than others.
As corys are bottom dwellers they usually take the brunt of any water quality issues. Corys demand pristine water as waste builds up primarily on the substrate and in it.
They are basically digging around in dirt.
as for the crazy swimming, I would set up a floating trap/net in the main tank to maintain the temperature, as you noted that you could really regulate the temp in an outside hospital tub. Fill the bottom with sand, this will help the cory to swim to the surface easily for air and stop it from hurting him self on decor.
I'm not familiar with the meds you mentioned, but a quick google search said they can be used on corys so continue the treatment. Also, the most important thing here would be to do 20% water changes paging particular attention to the substrate every other day, make sure to use water conditioner and matching up the temp.
Keep him in there with a floating plant that he can shade under.
Hope this helps.

 

[Byron]

I will not attempt to ID the issue, but at this stage I would suggest you stop the antibiotics.  While Kannaplex is in itself safe for corys, I do not see any sign of a need for this medication so it is doing more harm than good.  Any medication added to an aquarium will negatively affect the fish, so such treatments should only be given when it is fairly certain that they will actually help by targeting the problem.  And I really do not see that being the case here.  The other thing is that Kannaplex used beyond one dose (meaning, three times, three days apart, one time only) is not safe for many fish, and corys would fall into this group.  Do some water changes to remove this, and stay on course with your weekly 60% water changes.
 
I don't know if this cory will survive or not, but unless someone with more expertise on corys can offer more I would just leave things alone.  I assume you have had these corys for several months, so this could be the result of an old injury, or genetic.  The fact that it seems to have begun after a water change would make me wonder if something occurred them.  You did use a water conditioner?  More than one fish would likely be affected here though, but one never knows.
 
I agree with nic1 on the nitrate, but you said nitrate is zero so that wouldn't seem to be the issue (unless I missed something).  Moving a fish out of the main tank into a QT sometimes is necessary, but remember that this will stress the fish even more, and the lower temperature was probably a shock as well.  When I see a cory just acting oddly, I never consider moving it.  And there is as I said no sign that I can see in the video of external issues that would warrant isolation.  And placing the fish in a trap net in the main tank is not advisable; again, more stress on the fish, plus you cannot do any treatment without treating the entire tank, so nothing is achieved.  Unless you see other fish actually nipping, leave the cory in the main tank.
 
Byron.

 

[Alyssum]

Thanks for the info. I use API stress coat with every water change. I haven't dosed kanaplex for almost two weeks. I gave two rounds of treatment that were spaced about a week apart. I read on the seachem website that it was relatively safe to do this way, which is why I did it. I put it in a new filter with carbon and put the old one inbetween so the bb can get onto the new filter, so that's how it is at present. I guess I'm just concerned it's contagious and it will harm my other fish. I suppose it'd be too late now considering he has been in there too long and the other cories nuzzle up to him sometimes. I am surprised how he has been adapting to get around. He manages to scoot over to his tank mates, so we are calling him Scooter. I'll try to keep water conditions pristine and this post updated.

 

[Alyssum]

Another one of my cories is starting to show symptoms. When he sits still his head starts floating upward like he has no balance and his spine is starting to go inward, not severely, it's very subtle. His upper fin is also going off to the side. I'm noticing a slight redness in the "armpits". I don't know what to do now. My fish are all gonna die.

 

[nic1]

Hey,
I read somewhere once that no reference can be found to TB in cory cat fish.... So I dot really think TB can be the cause, you have used an anti bacterial Med with no avail, I'm now thinking this could be an internal parasite, especially now another has the same symptoms. The only way to be sure of this is to perform an autopsy on any that have died, also darkening of the skin is a sign of infection, bacterial or parasitic.
I think in the US you can buy anti parasitic food?... I'm not sure as I'm in the UK and can I let get sera nematol for internal parasites.

For the meantime keep the water especially clean, siphon the substrate really well,

 

[Byron]

Yes, I would also be inclined to consider a medicated food for an internal protozoan.  Perhaps metronidazole which I have used with great success. This has basically no detrimental effect on the fish, unlike adding medications to the water, for a normal duration of three weeks.  Though I am not saying that is what is here, but I think nic1's suggestion is certainly plausible.
 
Byron.

 

[Alyssum]

Thanks for the responses. Most people are now pointing towards parasites, so that is the best educated guess I have. I almost broke down in the LFS because they said there is nothing I can do. I felt a bit silly getting so upset over fish, but they are my babies. They recommended if I do try to treat them, to get some anti-parasitic medications, so that's what I'm doing. I've cleaned the tank water and I'm soaking metroplex into bloodworms (I didn't get the focus which I suppose I should have, but she didn't point it out to me) as well as using prazipro which she recommended. I know it is ill-advised to mix medications, but the two different medications affect different parasites, so I wanted to cover both bases and time is running short. I know API general cure has both of those ingredients, so I'm hoping it's safe. I read a few people doing this with no problem, so we'll see what happens.

 

[Alyssum]

Unfortunately, the cories were not interested in eating the worms. They ate a few, but did not seem hungry. It was a bit frustrating, but I am going to try again later. Usually I feed them before going to bed and turn off the light, so it was a bit out of their routine. I thought they love blood worms so I am afraid they are getting sicker. My betta ate some of them, but he might be constipated and bloating (could he have parasites too?)...He has been defecating so I am not sure what is wrong. So now I am worrying about even more problems

He has been looking bloated for a while now so I was fasting him off and on, but I suppose I should try treating him with a pea. I am hesitant to use salt because I am already treating the tank with medication for parasites...I would have done something sooner, but I just thought he was getting a little fat. Here is a picture of my betta and the bad spinal curve and sucked in belly of my sick cory. I know my betta looks a little rough, but he has bitten his fins since I got him.
 
http/i61.tinypic.com/2qa4c40.jpg
 
http/i58.tinypic.com/v2zolk.jpg

 

[nic1]

Hiya, here's a thought- have you tried soaking some worms in garlic juice, some fish go crazy for it, and if you drop some in with the medicated worms then they could consume some that's covered in the meds. Also garlic juice have some health benefits, whether or not there's enough beneficial nutrients in garlic to treat ailments it's worth a try unless Bryon who's quite knowledgable has any other suggestions?

I get upset also when my one of my fish gets ill, everything is at a stand still till it's sorted. I just don't think non fish people understand.

 

[Byron]

I am hesitant to suggest anything because my experience with disease has been very minimal over the years.  Been lucky maybe.  But during the past 3 years I have seen more problems, and interestingly all concerning internal protozoan.  And always with commercially raised fish, never wild caught, bringing it.  Sterbai corys are commercially raised these days.  Disease can spread rampant through fish hatcheries.
 
I would hope there are members here with knowledge on disease that will help you.  My initial entry into this thread, and a few similar others, was solely to point out the danger of using medications.  Having gone down this road, I know how natural it is to want to use this or that treatment.  But the only effective treatment will be the one that deals with the issue, and that is not often easy to diagnose.
 
You do not want to be using salt on top of the others.  And if this is what we seem to be suspecting (internal protozoan), salt will be useless anyway.  Garlic cannot hurt though, so that is a good suggestion.
 
Byron.

 

[Alyssum]

I was considering garlic if I couldn't get them to eat, but I think I've got em to eat it.
 
I have some good news. I woke up this morning and I have seen a major improvement. At first I refused to believe it, but he has definitely changed. I stood up late last night and waited for them to be hungry to feed the blood worms. The sickest, paralyzed cory was the most eager to eat and I managed to get them fed. I don't know if the prazipro or the metroplex, but something must be working. I wasn't expecting to see this kind of change, at least this soon if at all. He could still die, but to see this is amazing. He is actually pushing himself up with both bottom fins and I saw him surface for air twice, which I have not seen in almost a week. I have a video so you guys can see for yourself:
 
http/v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=6p0q9z&s=8
 
I am still not sure what to do about my betta, but I'm really hoping I can get this under control. I was worried about all the interference, especially without knowing what is wrong as you said byron. I am hoping he will keep improving and I am going to try and let nature takes course without so much fidgeting over their tank, probably causing them more stress. I'll keep that in mind about the salt and try something else if my betta does not improve. He ate some of the blood worms because they eat everything, making him more bloated. I am not going to feed him for a while, it jus tmade him balloon up.
 
I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[nic1]

That's really good news!
Regarding the betta, try starving him for a couple of days then feed him a bit of boiled pea-
Feed the corys at night when lights have been off for a while, they are normally active during lighs out and mine are often seen scurrying about looking for fallen missed bits of food while other tank mates are still.
This may be one way of getting around the greedy betta!

 

[Alyssum]

Yeah, it was bittersweet because my betta's fin rot has come back with a vengeance. It seems the kanaplex didn't help as much I would have liked. I got so focused on other things I didn't pay attention to his fin shrinking.   I quarantined him and I'm giving him a different treatment, so I don't have to worry about him eating their food. My concern is leaving the blood worms in will cause the nitrates to go up fast. I heard the medicine leeches out of the food, so the quicker they eat it the better. Could be a gimmick by seachem to buy their focus product, I don't know.  I'm hoping for the best. My cory is still about the same, he can use his fins now, but still not 100% function. Since he can use them now, when he twitches he springs up like he's on a trampoline, which is kinda funny. My other cory seems to be having swim bladder problems and the back part of her body will start to float up, but she rights herself, then it goes away. Her pigment is also is a bit lighter than I'd like, like she is stressed, but she has always been on the lighter side. I don't know if they are caused by the same thing. I hope so, so that I don't have to get more medications.

 

[Alyssum]

The most damaged cory continues to improve, he is gaining more control of his body and is able to swim pretty well, but definitely not like a regular cory. Coloration is turning to normal (was darkened). Still twitches. They lose balance occasionally. My main concern is their spines still curl to one side, I've seen one of the other ones doing it too. Not sure what else I could do, as I have no idea what might be causing it. I thought it would go away. I'm going to try a vitamin supplement just to help them replenish vitamins they have lost from the parasites, other than that I am at a loss. It is frustrating because I don't think it'll be safe to add new fish with them in this condition. I'm kinda nervous to stop treatment, but it probably is not helping any more at this point. I don't think it's scoliosis because it is not a permanent curvature and looks nothing like the pictures I have seen.