Plants during fishless cycle and is this the best option for a beginner?

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Rocky998

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So I plan to do a fishless cycle based on the cycle information on this site except I want to know two things... Is this the best option to cycle for a beginner who has never done this before and should I have plants or no plants while using the ammonium to cycle? Thank you in advance.
 
As I understand it, no plants means you get more BB for your ammonia. The plants compete for the ammonia otherwise as they break it down too. So to build up a good amount of BB go for no plants, add them later.
 
^That is good advice^
Though I have always planted my tanks as they cycle. I haven't noticed any extended cycle times, however I always have some seeded media form other tanks.
There is a product called Fritzzyme Turbo Start that you may be able to find in local fish stores. It is refrigerated and it has helped mt kick start a cycle when I had no seeded media.
 
^That is good advice^
Though I have always planted my tanks as they cycle. I haven't noticed any extended cycle times, however I always have some seeded media form other tanks.
There is a product called Fritzzyme Turbo Start that you may be able to find in local fish stores. It is refrigerated and it has helped mt kick start a cycle when I had no seeded media.
I found it on walmart for about $20. I may get it but I think I may just do it naturally. I'm going to be getting my plants after the cycle is over on etsy from trusted sellers.
 
As I understand it, no plants means you get more BB for your ammonia. The plants compete for the ammonia otherwise as they break it down too. So to build up a good amount of BB go for no plants, add them later.
Ok. Thanks for your advice.
 
There's always a silent cycle, which uses plants instead of bacteria. But to do this, you would need a lot of fast growing plants. If you plan less plants, and slow growing plants it is better to do a fishless cycle, then add plants.

When fish are in the tank they make tiny amounts of ammonia 24 hours a day. Fishless cycling means adding more than fish would excrete in 24 hours and it's added all at once. And ammonia is in the water for days while the ammonia eaters grow. Many plants cannot cope with this much ammonia in the water for this long.
 
There's always a silent cycle, which uses plants instead of bacteria. But to do this, you would need a lot of fast growing plants. If you plan less plants, and slow growing plants it is better to do a fishless cycle, then add plants.

When fish are in the tank they make tiny amounts of ammonia 24 hours a day. Fishless cycling means adding more than fish would excrete in 24 hours and it's added all at once. And ammonia is in the water for days while the ammonia eaters grow. Many plants cannot cope with this much ammonia in the water for this long.
There are 2 types of plants I plan on having... Maybe a third. So I'm definitely doing some Java ferns and anubias. And I might do some floating plants...
 
There are 2 types of plants I plan on having... Maybe a third. So I'm definitely doing some Java ferns and anubias. And I might do some floating plants...
But I'm going to most likely get all the decor first (no plants) and then after the tank is completely cycled I will add the plants in after treating them for snails.
 
Anubias and Java fern are both slow growing. They won't take up much ammonia.

However floating plants are very good at taking up ammonia. They are near the lights and can get carbon dioxide from the air, other things plants need to grow fast.


Do you mean a snail killing chemical or bleach to treat for snails?
 
Anubias and Java fern are both slow growing. They won't take up much ammonia.

However floating plants are very good at taking up ammonia. They are near the lights and can get carbon dioxide from the air, other things plants need to grow fast.


Do you mean a snail killing chemical or bleach to treat for snails?
I will add a very small amount of bleach to kill any snails. Do you have any recommendations for fast growing plants that will really help with the ammonium? Or should I just stick with my main choices?
 
Just to add some data here which may help explain things.

Studies have shown that plants take up ammonia/ammonium faster than the nitrifying bacteria and archaea. So if you "cycle" with no plants, and then later add plants that are relatively fast growing (floating as others mentioned being the best for this), they will out-compete the bacteria/archaea and the latter will enter a sort of hibernation. I've no idea how long they might live in this state, opinions vary and it seems to depend upon various factors. To me it makes no sense to go through this period of so-called "cycling" if you have live fast-growing plants in the tank. And the ammonia may harm them, as I have already pointed out.

Floating plants are ideal here, as @Essjay noted. Substantial floaters like Water Sprite, Frogbit, and Water Lettuce, and some stem plants left to grow floating are good too. Aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium day and night, so they are continually removing this from the water. And it is next to impossible to have too much ammonia/ammonium from the fish and decomposition, assuming the tank is biologically balanced.

I will add a very small amount of bleach to kill any snails.

Any thing like bleach that is actually strong enough to kill snails or algae will inevitably harm the plants. Ask any botanist if you don't want to believe me. Snails (of the sort this is referencing, like bladder, pond, etc) are harmless, and they perform a useful function by eating all organics including fish excrement which breaks it down faster for the various substrate bacteria, thus providing it as food for plants or nitrifying bacteria/archaea, depending.
 
Just to add some data here which may help explain things.

Studies have shown that plants take up ammonia/ammonium faster than the nitrifying bacteria and archaea. So if you "cycle" with no plants, and then later add plants that are relatively fast growing (floating as others mentioned being the best for this), they will out-compete the bacteria/archaea and the latter will enter a sort of hibernation. I've no idea how long they might live in this state, opinions vary and it seems to depend upon various factors. To me it makes no sense to go through this period of so-called "cycling" if you have live fast-growing plants in the tank. And the ammonia may harm them, as I have already pointed out.

Floating plants are ideal here, as @Essjay noted. Substantial floaters like Water Sprite, Frogbit, and Water Lettuce, and some stem plants left to grow floating are good too. Aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium day and night, so they are continually removing this from the water. And it is next to impossible to have too much ammonia/ammonium from the fish and decomposition, assuming the tank is biologically balanced.



Any thing like bleach that is actually strong enough to kill snails or algae will inevitably harm the plants. Ask any botanist if you don't want to believe me. Snails (of the sort this is referencing, like bladder, pond, etc) are harmless, and they perform a useful function by eating all organics including fish excrement which breaks it down faster for the various substrate bacteria, thus providing it as food for plants or nitrifying bacteria/archaea, depending.
Ok so I should probably just stick with the java ferns and anubias so I'm not starving the bacteria. And about the snails... I dont want my tank to be completely over run by snails... Thats why I plan on getting some nerite snails that way I will have snails but they wont keep breeding.
 
I have:
those tiny red ramshorn pest snails
physid pest snails, common names bladder snails, tadpole snails
Malaysian trumpet snails
Nerite snails.

The two pest snails - three if you count Malaysian trumpet snails - have not taken over in my tanks simply because I don't over feed the fish, and I remove fish poop during a water change. This means they have little food which keeps their numbers under control
 
I have:
those tiny red ramshorn pest snails
physid pest snails, common names bladder snails, tadpole snails
Malaysian trumpet snails
Nerite snails.

The two pest snails - three if you count Malaysian trumpet snails - have not taken over in my tanks simply because I don't over feed the fish, and I remove fish poop during a water change. This means they have little food which keeps their numbers under control
Oh ok. This eases my stress a bit.
 
Just to add some data here which may help explain things.

Studies have shown that plants take up ammonia/ammonium faster than the nitrifying bacteria and archaea. So if you "cycle" with no plants, and then later add plants that are relatively fast growing (floating as others mentioned being the best for this), they will out-compete the bacteria/archaea and the latter will enter a sort of hibernation. I've no idea how long they might live in this state, opinions vary and it seems to depend upon various factors. To me it makes no sense to go through this period of so-called "cycling" if you have live fast-growing plants in the tank. And the ammonia may harm them, as I have already pointed out.

Floating plants are ideal here, as @Essjay noted. Substantial floaters like Water Sprite, Frogbit, and Water Lettuce, and some stem plants left to grow floating are good too. Aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium day and night, so they are continually removing this from the water. And it is next to impossible to have too much ammonia/ammonium from the fish and decomposition, assuming the tank is biologically balanced.



Any thing like bleach that is actually strong enough to kill snails or algae will inevitably harm the plants. Ask any botanist if you don't want to believe me. Snails (of the sort this is referencing, like bladder, pond, etc) are harmless, and they perform a useful function by eating all organics including fish excrement which breaks it down faster for the various substrate bacteria, thus providing it as food for plants or nitrifying bacteria/archaea, depending.
Are red root floaters good?
 

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