Plants and sand?

[ado]

have a sand substrate in my tank and i was wondering if i could have plants in my tank. the plants that i really want are the swords. i have some java fern in there because i was told they did not need to be buried in gravel. is there anyway i can keep swords? would a potted plant last long in its pot? thank you

 

[Lateral Line]

Plants tend to do better with a sadn substrate than gravel, it is more natural. That said, if plants aren't growing at all in a gravel aquarium, simply changing the substrate won't help. Light, water quality/parameters and nutrients are more important.

 

[aquamanis]

Sand should be ok as long as its not too dense. Plants like oxygen around the roots and if the substrate is too dense not enough oxygen can get through. Some people mix a corser sand or gravel with the sand to make it more porous. I disagree somewhat with lateral in saying sand is better than gravel. Even in your normal garden bed worms make tunnels allowing air to get to the roots. Theres no garden worms in your tank sand and the pressure of the water will compact the sand even more. Not enough air = root rot. Pots are fine to put in as they are. Have you ever seen the plants sold in LFshops planted in soil, nope, they,re in gravel. Food for thought.

 

[Lateral Line]

If you've ever collect plants from the wild, you'll find most of the time they are growing in a very fine muddy substrate with high amounts of rotting organics, (dead leaves etc.), with next to no oxygen around the roots.

I've collected in Venzeula, Brazil, Bolivia, Guinea, Senegal, Mali, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Rwanda, Zaire, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and never found them to be growing in claen aerated gravel. Nearest to it was a weird plant I found in the Canaima national park in Southern Venzeula which had almost no other orgranic matter.

>>>
Have you ever seen the plants sold in LFshops planted in soil, nope, they,re in gravel. Food for thought.
<<<

Most LFS's use undergravel filtrs in their tanks requiring the use of gravel.

I use swimming pool filter sand - doesn't compact so much.

 

[ado]

thanx for all the advice, one more question though. how do you keep the plants down? i don't want to use pots unless i have to.

 

[mrV]

What plant is "sword"? Some kind of Echinodorus?

 

[AquaNut]

MrV - Swords are usually Echinodorus, yes

Lateral Line - I'm outrageously jealous of all the amazing places you've travelled; you must be able to tell stories for hours.

 

[aquamanis]

Now I,m not going to get into a debate with lateral on this as he obviously believes sand is ok and I,m not saying it isn,t. But there is a difference between making do and doing something properly. Here is a piece from the complete book of aquarium plants. ON SAND: Sand always has the same properties whether it comes from the Loire or the Rhine and its creamy yellow colour is effective for decoration. But like quartz, its top layer will clog with time and prevent the passage of water and oxygen. Sand does not provide a sound foundation for constructing any relief in the aquarium. The nature of the substance ensures that movements of fish and water currents constantly smooth it down to an even surface. ON GRAVEL: Round gravel 2-4mm diameter grains is the most suitable material for an aquarium substratum. It has no sharp edges and its rounded structure allows plenty of space for water and oxygen to circulate freely. Roots can easily take hold of it and benenfit from the nitrate charged water. Its natural redish colour helps recreate the lighting found naturally in tropical rivers and lagoons. Fish feel more secure without the brightness found with a sandy bottom.SUMMARY: As a general rule, the simplest substratum is the best and its important to opt for one with large granules. Substrata with wide intersticies will guarantee clear water for however good your filters are, they do not remove all the particles before they are broken down. Aquariums which have a constant display of suspended particles are generally those with a sandy bottom where movement of water and fish ensure that waste constantly rises to the surface. Sand is not recommended.

 

[Lateral Line]

>>> how do you keep the plants down

Plants like swords, (Echinodorus sp.), and crypts form a good root ball and can be planted like a garden plant for example, the roots will anchor the plant.

With cuttings of stem plants, bind 4-5 cuttings together and place a stone in the "cup". With cuttings, be careful not to crush the stem as it will then rot and the top will float away before any new roots develop.

>>> Sand is not recommended.

With fishkeeping there is the hard science and there is the art. Choice of substrate is partly both. I favour sand, that author does not. Fine - I don't have a problem with that. This, however...

>>> Sand always has the same properties

.. is nonsense.

>>> places you've travelled

Travelling is one of my favourite passtimes. Only continent I've not travelled around is Antarctica.

 

[aquamanis]

Lateral next time you come to oz, come and see me. I,ll buy you a beer and we can talk about sand v gravel amongst other things. I wasn,t trying to put him off sand, personally I like the look myself. I was just pointing out some of the pitfalls. Thats the beauty of this forum is people have different opinions and experience in different areas. As you have sand yourself can you honestly tell me there are no pitfalls with it? Anyway cheers untill we catch up for that beer!

 

[mrV]

have a sand substrate in my tank and i was wondering if i could have plants in my tank. the plants that i really want are the swords.

Just put plant on bottom. Do not cover up the plants base, it must be on sand, not inside. Then put some fertilizers near roots, like Tetra Crypto, JBL 7-balls, Tetra InitialsSticks. It (Echinodorus sp.) doesn't need liquid fertilizers because it takes most of nutrients from bottom by roots. You can also buy some fertilizer, that contains especially iron and other micro and macro nurtients.

 

[Lateral Line]

>>> people have different opinions and experience in different areas.

Very true

>>> tell me there are no pitfalls with it?

After switching to swimming pool filter sand, no, I haven't had any problems at all. The silver sand I used before used to compact to much requiring a little more "gardening", (hence me rubishing the claim that all sand is the same!).

>>> next time you come to oz, come and see me.

Hmmm, it is 7 years since I was there last - about time for another visit...